One less M9 customer, I canceled my order today.

[mby]

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I always hear about trickling down of 'S2-technology'; what exactly is it function/feature-wise that you are referring to?

 

Thanks and best regards,

Michael

[NB23]

I'm sure they're crying their eyes out at Solms.

 

Strangely my dealer couldn't care less.

 

Here's why: I don't know when I'm going to have it.

 

I don't know if I'll think it's garbage compared to M9.2 or M10 or the next

brand (maybe epson or zeiss) that's going to put one up there for the prestige

value

 

 

I don't know if X1 will be all I need for a digital camera.

 

Well clearly I don't know much but I know this:

 

I'm going to spend a little less and get an " a la carte made " I've always had a perfect Leica in mind but I had more than enough bodies I could use, so I thought I'll spend the money to support the digital revolution.

After an M8 and M8.2 and a bunch of point and shoots revolution came to a bloody end.

 

I know there will be a digital camera in the future that will deserve the Leica optics until then I'll concentrate on the images more and the equipment less.

 

I know this is the M9 post but since I got to converse with you guys the past month or so

I thought I should ask you as well. How long is the waiting period after ordering an a la carte.

 

Patrick

 

 

 

Yaaaaaaaaawn.

 

Hoo kares.

[spylaw4]

Actually, Rick, I think that they needed to produce the FF M rapidly simply for company finanical reasons. They could have included S2 technology but there just was not time to include the Maestro type processor etc. to meet the deadlines. So yes perforce it is a development of the M8 technology, but by all accounts, despite the whingers and gripers, it is a consideable improvement and well worth the effort.

 

IMO they have done darned well to squeeze a FF sensor into the existing body to satisfy the aficionados, and to have at least a fair number available at launch. The sizeable waiting lists bear witness to the pent-up demand.

 

My guess is that they already have M10 on the drawing board if not in prototype form, but I would also guess that we could well in the interim get either an M9.2 or an M9 with optional features at some point. M9 software upgrades will of course be issued (soon I hope).

[ianman]

You guys crack me up. M9=M8.3, at best.

Wrong ! It's a M3.22 :-) And that's exactly why I have ordered one

[250swb]

Its an interesting thread, and my reading so far would be that most people see the M9 as a sleight of hand con trick on the part of Leica. Neither a big enough jump away from the M8 technically, nor an improvement in IQ big enough to justify an 'upgrade'.

 

And isn't that the point all along, people want to get away from the M8, desperate to spend their money on something that takes the nagging taste of faliure out of their mouth. That is why these debates go on, because the longed for revolution wasn't as big and as blatant as hoped. Owners are in reality complaining they are morally still stuck with the M8, and using the M9 as a smokescreen. But in declaring my position I think the very popularity of the M9 is based firmly on those people who like myself saw the M8 as the Leica sleight of hand con trick. So if the M9 is realistically only a variation of the M8, well its a variation that many people have been waiting for all along, nothing more and nothing less. There will be a whole new raft of digital users without any need to tell Leica where they are going wrong.

 

Steve

[delander †]

I did not see the M8 as a slight of hand trick, just Leica's first digital M. I and many others bought it and a lot of lenses and if we had not there would be no M9 or M anything.

 

Stop griping about the M8. It has three main areas of complaint, IR filters, crop sensor, iso performance. That said it still allowed the user to make distinctive images. With the M9 Leica resolved two of those three issues. Great, more issues will be resolved in future cameras. It is all just normal product development. How many cameras between a Canon d30 and the latest 7d? And people still gripe. And Canon still did not introduce a button for mirror lock up.

 

Jeff

[delander †]

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And to the OP - great decision, I'll have to wait slightly less long. How long before you re-appraise your decsion?

 

Jeff

[ljclark]

Its an interesting thread, and my reading so far would be that most people see the M9 as a sleight of hand con trick on the part of Leica. Neither a big enough jump away from the M8 technically, nor an improvement in IQ big enough to justify an 'upgrade'.

 

 

You must have a rather unusually developed set of reading skills to come up with that "most people" analysis. Hopefully you're not in a line of work where people die in their sleep if you mess up.

 

It is folly to slap the term "most people" on any of these discussion threads. Some of the folks who are making decisions to buy M9s have been hanging around this forum a lot longer than I have. Some are drooling, glazed-eye, Leica-crazed fanboys/girls who a driven to have this latest "thing". Others are conscientious, careful shooters who have made a decision based on the best available information and their own, considerable experience.

 

I felt more than a few tugs towards the plastic when the specifications and preliminary reviews for the M9 first came out. I thought about my own shooting with the M8, which lenses I use, and how I evaluated their performance on the M8. For me the IR issue is easily dealt with. Noise Ninja solves most of my noise issues (and the M8 still gives me more ISO freedom than film in a Leica ever did). And I find that I've settled into a comfort zone where I really like the "off label" performance of some lenses in the 1.33 crop factor.

 

For me, that is a strong voice telling me to shoot more with my M8, think about how things would change with an M9, and step aside and let folks who really, really need (or want) an M9 to move up in that waiting line. I have time.

[Guido]

I love those offended and disappointed potential M9 buyers. I could hug every single one of them. In fact, VIVA LA M10! We don't need a half-cooked M9! Let's all stand together, cancel our orders, and taunt this blatant attempt of Leica to extract our hard-earned cash!

 

(Whatever it takes to improve my position in the queue)

 

[arthury]

I love those offended and disappointed potential M9 buyers. I could hug every single one of them. In fact, VIVA LA M10! We don't need a half-cooked M9! Let's all stand together, cancel our orders, and taunt this blatant attempt of Leica to extract our hard-earned cash!

 

(Whatever it takes to improve my position in the queue)

 

 

 

Be my guest to pay $7K to be a beta tester.

[Leicaiste]

I will be very surprised if there will be an M10 before two, or even three years.

 

It will be very un-Leica.

 

Okay I was surprised by the M9. But then it was very un-Leica to offer a cropped sensor.

 

I am keeping the M8 together with the M9, because it is the perfect backup.

 

That is maybe what I was missing most with the M8, a backup. The M8.2 was not an option, to close from the M8 and the M9 was coming (in 2010).

 

;-)

 

I was always a little bit worried to travel with only one camera, because of what I read in this forum, whereas during those three years my M8 never suffered from any of the problem mentioned here (save the IR).

 

Lucien

[Rick]

I will be very surprised if there will be an M10 before two, or even three years.

Lucien

 

Why three years? Leica put very little of their own resources into the "M9." Sensor was done by Kodak. Image board and processing by Jenoptic. All Leica had to do was change the body casting and keep assembling the M9 just like it was an M8. Ok, I know nothing of whatever else Leica had to do in house, but for the most part everything was delivered to them.

 

This was a smart move to buy a year for Leica while they concentrate their resources on the M10. Not a rip off, just a nice move for them and for some of us that want the features of FF while we wait for a new sensor and and processing.

 

I would bet that they are closer to that than we think. In the mean time I'll hold onto my M9 order for now. But, I fully expect a M10 in 2010.

[psss]

don't care about a M10....but also cancelled my order for the m9....sorry to say but image quality just isn't there....price always plays a role but i was really hoping that the m9 would be the leader in raw image quality for all cameras up to 25mpix in 35mm format....it isn't...

[fotografr]

I wonder if there will be a special announcement on 10/10/2010. Hmmm.

[adli]

People talk about S2/Maestro technology as if it is some kind of holy grail!?!

 

C'mon. The M9 has a full frame senor and a electronics that can handle the sensor. What more do you expect?

[Guido]

Be my guest to pay $7K to be a beta tester.

I think the real beta testers are already among us. Those who already hold cameras from the first production run in their hands and are posting eagerly to blogs, websites, and online galleries. If the M9 had any show-stopping flaws, they would be known by now.

 

Personally, I believe the M9 is "it". How many more noisy pixels does one need to cram on a small format FF sensor? For those who really need more, digital medium format would be a more logical solution. In addition, you will need to get religious about tripods etc. if you really want to fully exploit the resolution of a camera like the M9 to the last megapixel.

 

For these reasons, I wouldn't even be surprised if the M10 featured less pixels than the M9 in favor of improved high ISO quality. Canon and the evolution of their G series (G9 = 12MP, G10 = 15MP, G11 = 10MP) is an example in case.

[M. Valdemar]

If the M9 cost $1500 there wouldn't be any of these threads. You would all have one.

 

What a bunch of petite bourgeoisie losers and sour-grapes eaters.

 

So what do you want if you decide to "cancel your order"? An engraved, framed wall certificate?

[reven]

Well Is the m9 more a M8.3 ? I would say yes. Is the image quality better ? Perhaps the DR because of the move away from the compressed DNGs, but nothing huge.

 

Will I buy one ? Yes, for me the important part are the 18Mp. I am still very happy with the pixel quality of the m8. There are just not enough of them.

 

Will we see S2 features in the M10? Yes

 

Do I want to see any such features in the m10, when it comes in 2-3 years ? NO, please NO.

At that time the S2 stuff is dated. (I project it will be next year than Canon and Nikon kill it with their top end models)

 

So I much prefer to see CMOS around 24mp in the m10. Well if I could wish than Sony please give Leica the 34Mp, NO AA Filter sensor which will redefine a lot in the coming year.

[Leicaiste]

Why three years? snip

 

I would bet that they are closer to that than we think. In the mean time I'll hold onto my M9 order for now. But, I fully expect a M10 in 2010.

 

I don't think so because 2010 is tomorrow, because the M9 is what we expected and will sell well for at least two years if not three, no need to hurry, because they will work first on firmware upgrades to improve it, because they will first announce few new M lenses.

 

Because they are still working on the S2, because they will not start working on an M10 before it is done, because an M10 should be a big improvement and will take time if they want to do it themselves and will request more R&D than the M9 etc...

 

My bet is Photokina 2012 at the earliest.

 

Lucien

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[brill64]

in a recent delivery of m9's to hk, leica reps throughout the city received just one unit each. none of them grey, incidentally. it didn't include mine. i don't think it's really the rep's fault but i think the "snobbishness" he's referring to is supplying old customers first. it's not really first come, first served. anyway, i've paid my deposit and i'm sitting tight. this would seem to be the only solution for a new customer. i also believe an m9.2 would be worth the wait.