strange light reflexes in 35 mm summicron asph

[vla]

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very interesting. it seems that 35mm seem to especially sensitive to this kind of problem. our test shots indicate that all three of them - summarit, summicron and summilux (your test) - create undesired reflections.

just did a quick test (with two candles ) with two lenses i had at hand - 75mm summarit showed slight reflections with filter and no artifacts without, 24mm elmar did not show any reflections at all already with filter mounted.

 

markus

[ArtZ]

Hereunder you will find some pictures for M8 Customer Service... because I have hot-pixels creating a line (at the right side) visible from ISO 640. In a following message I will post some 100% crops of these picures.

 

These pictures were taken last Thursday 24/09 at ISO 2500 and the lens is the latest Summilux 35... The JPGs were produced by the M8 engine (no modification whatsoever - I've just have reduced the size with Photoshop CS4 to post them here).

 

You can see in every single picture I have green artifacts due to the IR filters.

 

Last picture was taken in Costa Rica. You can see green and magenta artifacts.

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[ArtZ]

Now the crops:

 

In the third picture (L1000528_Crop_100%.jpg) there's also a red blop next to the left window.

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[Guest Lotw]

In my taste these are two different problems; the green dots seem to be reflections of the streetlamp, which would be a 35mm problem then. The blue line seems an electronic thing, sensor or sensor-management problem, imho

[luigi bertolotti]

I just tested again, with 3 candles, with and without filter, but in both cases three reflections come up: green without filter, magenta with filter (:-). Summilux 50 other lenses no problem

 

EXACTLY : hereunder, two with candles...

1st with Cron 35 Asph - no filter (f2 at 1250) - green reflection

2nd with Elmarit 21 asph - no filter (f2,8 at 1250) - no reflection

 

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[vla]

luigi, artz -

thanks for sharing your images. i guess we agree here that this is a 35mm problem. i wonder what leica can do to fix this issue.

@ artz - you might to take shots under similar lighting conditions without filter. i would expect the problem to persist. btw - good luck with solving your sensor problem ...

markus

[mjh]

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i wonder what leica can do to fix this issue.

The cannot “fix” the lens. Each lens design is characterised by some compromise arrived at in the strive for maximum image quality, and this phenomenon is part of the characteristics of this lens. Enjoy its qualities and learn to live with its deficiencies. If Leica should design another 35 mm Summicron, it will by necessity be just another compromise, and not a perfect lens.

[Nicoleica]

One option that nobody seems to have suggested yet, and please excuse me if they have but I missed it, would be for a non-reflective/low-reflective coating to be applied to the cover glass on the sensor. This would reduce the instances whereby light is bouncing back from the sensor into the lens.

[mjh]

But there already is an antireflective coating on the cover glass; these artifacts would be much more severe if there wasn’t.

[brill64]

it really looks like reflection of the candle off the uv/ir filter, plain and simple. try taking the uv/ir filter off next time under similar lighting and composition for comparison

[vla]

@ michael - thank you for your explanations

@ brill64 - my image at the beginning of the thread was taken with a 35mm asph without filter. other contributors confirmed that all 35mm lenses (summilux, summicron and summarit) are somewhat more susceptible to these kind of artifacts than other m-lenses.

markus

[Guest Lotw]

But there already is an antireflective coating on the cover glass; these artifacts would be much more severe if there wasn’t.

 

antireflective coating on the rear glass then, what the heck! we're talking about € 2000,=, or more, or less. The pre-asph Summicron hasn't got this problem

[ArtZ]

In my taste these are two different problems; the green dots seem to be reflections of the streetlamp, which would be a 35mm problem then. The blue line seems an electronic thing, sensor or sensor-management problem, imho

 

Yes, there're two different problems. I know I have a sensor problem...

 

I got a mail from M8 Customer Service and they will replace the sensor.

 

 

luigi, artz -

thanks for sharing your images. i guess we agree here that this is a 35mm problem. i wonder what leica can do to fix this issue.

@ artz - you might to take shots under similar lighting conditions without filter. i would expect the problem to persist. btw - good luck with solving your sensor problem ...

markus

 

I've just realized I forgot in my previous post to tell you, guys, the picture in Costa Rica was taken with the MATE (Tri-Elmar 28/35/50) at 35mm! I never thought this issue could be seen more often with 35mm lenses.

 

This weekend, I'll try to make some tests with other 35mm lenses and I'll post them here: CV Nokton 35/1.2 ASPH, Nokton 35/1.4 (DC), ZM Biogon 35/2 and MATE.

 

PS: Thank you for your concern about the CCD-Bildsensor, Markus Leica will pick up the camera at my home in Paris next week, so the problem will be sort out very soon.

 

@Nicoleica: When you spoke of "red blops" (I think you called them something like that), you meant the same thing you can see in the third picture (L1000528_Crop_100%.jpg) on the top right side of the left window?

.

[Guest Lotw]

This weekend, I'll try to make some tests with other 35mm lenses and I'll post them here: ZM Biogon 35/2 and MATE.

 

PS: Thank you for your concern about the CCD-Bildsensor, Markus Leica will pick up the camera at my home in Paris next week, so the problem will be sort out very soon.

 

.

 

Yeah! I'm very curious. Btw, did you know this?:

 

C-Biogon 2.8/35

[ArtZ]

Yeah! I'm very curious. Btw, did you know this?:

 

C-Biogon 2.8/35

 

I only have two Zeiss lenses. The Biogon 21/2.8 and the 35/2. I bought them to a LUF member and I'm very happy with them (BTW, they're the only two Zeiss lenses I have and also the only ones second hand!).

 

I know Erwin Puts considers the C-Biogon 2.8/35 as a very resistent lens to flare. I have never used one, but I would love to try one.

[mjh]

I've just realized I forgot in my previous post to tell you, guys, the picture in Costa Rica was taken with the MATE (Tri-Elmar 28/35/50) at 35mm! I never thought this issue could be seen more often with 35mm lenses.

But that is just ordinary flare, not a reflection off the sensor. That it happened at 35 mm is probably just a coincidence; there is no reason to suppose that any 35 mm lens should be prone to create reflections.

[Nicoleica]

@Nicoleica: When you spoke of "red blops" (I think you called them something like that), you meant the same thing you can see in the third picture (L1000528_Crop_100%.jpg) on the top right side of the left window?

.

 

Hi Artz,

 

The red blob that shows in your picture does seem to be similar to that which affected my camera. This was the reason for my camera's last trip back to Solms. (The previous trip was to cure green blobs.)

I've just looked at your example pictures again, and that particular red blob appears in the same place on all three 'street light' pictures. It's just more noticeable in the one that you made the crop of.

[ArtZ]

Here are the images (JPGs from M8 JPG engine "Fine"):

 

1.- MATE 35/f4 ISO 1250

2.- ZM 35/f2 ISO 640

3.- CV 35/f1.4 ISO 640

4.- CV 35/f1.2 ISO 640

 

No problem with the MATE, the Biogon ZM 35/2 shows some reflections, Nokton 35/1.4 gets worse (very similar to the Summilux 35 ASPH) and the Nokton 35/1.2 ASPHERICAL is the worst!

 

After this dirty test, I have the feeling reflections get worse with wider aperture... but this is a normal thing!

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[Guest Lotw]

No problem with the MATE,

 

Hahaha, nice test! Join the club!

 

But if you watch carefully you see a green stain on the white stripe of the zebra on the picture from the MATE too, which is not a very sharp reflection but still

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ArtZ]

Hi Artz,

 

The red blob that shows in your picture does seem to be similar to that which affected my camera. This was the reason for my camera's last trip back to Solms. (The previous trip was to cure green blobs.)

I've just looked at your example pictures again, and that particular red blob appears in the same place on all three 'street light' pictures. It's just more noticeable in the one that you made the crop of.

 

Thank you, Nicole!

 

I haven't talked to them about the "red blob" because I didn't noticed it when I send the pictures but I have to call them back next week (when I will be back in Paris) to arrange to pick up the camera at my home. I will ask them (for curiosity) if they know the reason for this phenomenon.

 

I hope I won't get "green blobs" after the sensor replacement!!!

 

(oops! that's not green)

 

ADDED: Nicole, you're absolutely right! I've checked the files and the red blop is in every picture at the same place. I can even see a very tiny line from the red blop in picture L1000524.JPG going down from the red blop. They're maybe just hot/dead-pixels...