Is the X1 just a $2,000 P&S?

[Lucklik]

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That's a likeable design.

Is there any reason that the screws of the wheels are brought out of center?

 

With putting the screws out of center the inner side of the wheel, can not turn in the wheel. So the inner side will always be in the right position. (1/250 will never be 1/125 or 1/500)

I think it is a very clever solution, you don't need anything more then 1 srew to keep the inner side in place.

 

I like it/

[thrid]

The X1 does have a dedicated 36mm OVF ... no need to argue anymore.

 

I ran out of Tri-X and am back.

 

You can only frame with the brightline finder, not really use the AF or manual operation to focus.

It needs an OVF that can do both.

[DavGreg]

I am weary of the X1 being referred to as a P&S

I think the X1 is in a class of its own.

 

That class would be over $1,000.00 (US) point and shoot cameras.

It's a nice point and shoot, but it's still a point and shoot with a FIXED lens and no real viewfnder.

 

Oh that's right, after you spend 2k you can get further ripped off for a snap on viewfinder.

[len_gee]

Forgive my ignorance, I've just discovered there is a Leica X1 coming soon. But what is it exactly that justifies a $2,000 price tag for what looks basically like a P&S camera to me, albeit a very «chic» one, with a «Leica» lens (the Panasonic LX--3 also has a «Leica» lens, as does the D-Lux 4, at a fifth of the price) without viewfinder, and with an APS-C size sensor (is it the same as in Nikon's D300?) Which means the «Elmarit» 24 mm will become a standard 35 mm, right? Sorry, but I don't get it. Am I missing something?

 

Greetings

 

You are paying for the titanium alloy body, 24mm Elmarit lens, and the red dot quality.

 

Kind regards

[tomasis7]

The X1 does have a dedicated 36mm OVF ... no need to argue anymore.

 

 

darn want it..would be nice companion to Rollei 35S I would be crazy for 28mm 2.0

[Tenor1]

I agree with Tomasis and would prefer a 28mm, 2.0 lenses.

[jackart]

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I agree with Tomasis and would prefer a 28mm, 2.0 lenses.

 

Good point. I wonder, what effect it causes to size, and price. Sensor is huge compared to chassis.

 

Jaak

[nryn]

How come nobody wants to rake Leica over the coals for the prices of their binoculars? I find a $2,100 US street price for a pair of Leica 8 x 32s, while I can get the "same thing" from Pentax for $350.

 

(When my local store started carrying Leica cameras, they were also looking forward to carrying the Leica binoculars and scopes.)

 

If you think the Pentax binoculars are the "same thing" as the Leica, then why don't you get the Pentax?

 

There are clearly two different markets: those who perceive value in the Leica, and those who perceive value in the Pentax. If what you want is a Pentax with a Leica logo, I'm sure you can get a sticker on eBay.

 

Frankly, I don't understand this forum's obsession with telling Leica how to run their business. Tell them how to run their business with your wallet.

 

I'm interested in the X1, but will wait until either I see one in person or until the X1.2. It would be nice to go on these business trips with a smaller camera capable of good photos (I have an M and D-lux 4). I'd love, basically, a digital version of my Nikon 35ti, and the X1 seems to be the first camera to fit the bill.

[jsrockit]

One solution to the pricing issue would be to include the viewfinder standard for once... I understand not including it with the D-Lux 4, but at $2000 ... I think it would be nice gesture and would make people feel a little better about the price.

[Daniel Ortego]

I had the M8 and four Leica primes at around 20k. I then picked up the D-Lux 4 along with the flash and case at around $1,100.00. Now I’m on the fence for either the M9 or X1. I could swing either one, provided I can appreciate the performance vs. value. Who knows, maybe the X1 files will help me decide. The strong points appear to be the controls are similar to the M8. The downside is that a fully configured kit of camera, finder, grip and possibly the flash, will set you back about 3k. Perhaps for those who only buy the camera and don't already have Lightroom, maybe it will be easier to justify.

Regards,

[msnyc]

That really isn't the point is it? The point is whether the camera is worth $2000 to a large enough number of people.

 

Agreed. I was hoping for a $7000.00 point and shoot with the M9.

[warnica]

Sorry if this has been previously asked, but what are the three small dots(holes?) to the right of the shutter speed dial?

[vicpeh]

Sorry if this has been previously asked, but what are the three small dots(holes?) to the right of the shutter speed dial?

 

Should be the speaker/beeper, just like in the DLux 4.

[NZDavid]

Point and shoot is good! Digital compacts are actually mega complex, with all sorts of modes and menus and programs. With the X1 you have a simple exposure system, using shutter speed and aperture dials. You therefore have much more control, without having to trawl through menu options. Go auto, semi-auto, or manual -- quickly and simply.

[normanf]

Its a German-made Leica - not a rebadaged Panasonic clone with the Leica label. It has a huge 1.5 CMOS sensor, a stunning achievement in a camera this small. Mated to a 24mm Elmarit fixed lens, its expected to deliver outstanding pictures. This is really the digital version of Leica's famed CM camera, also made in Germany. I didn't expect Leica to go for the compact camera market in such a big way, but now they've made history in Solms.

 

It more than justified by the price tag - a high quality camera in what most people consider SLR territory!

[normanf]

Plus German engineering and made in Germany. You can't say that of Leica's Panasonic versions and only the much more expensive M line is made in Solms.

[leicanut2]

Interesting thread, I have taken a few really good pictures with the DL-4 I can't even guess how much better the X1 would be.

I have made some great enlargements from the DL-4, wonder how much bigger you could blow up the X1 shots.

 

I can't wait to see a working one at the Camera shop.

 

Cheers Jan

[thrid]

If you think the Pentax binoculars are the "same thing" as the Leica, then why don't you get the Pentax?

 

There are clearly two different markets: those who perceive value in the Leica, and those who perceive value in the Pentax. If what you want is a Pentax with a Leica logo, I'm sure you can get a sticker on eBay.

 

I think the problem is that Leica prices have risen to the point where the cost exceeds the perceived value many consumer place on their offerings.

 

As an example, a few years ago I bought a Noctilux. Although it was very expensive I felt that the value I was getting in return, justified the high cost. The new Noctilux is about twice as much as the old one. I no longer feel that it delivers value equal to the price that Leica is asking.

 

Here's another one. Dlux-4 Safari edition. Are you really willing to spend an extra 200-300 euros for a green finish, instead of the standard black? The D-Lux 4 is already almost twice the cost of the Pana LX3, which is the same camera.

 

Frankly, I don't understand this forum's obsession with telling Leica how to run their business. Tell them how to run their business with your wallet.

 

Well, I did vote with my wallet. I haven't purchased a new product from Leica since I got my M7 and 1.4/50 Lux. Since then Leica prices have moved in to the stratosphere and they lost me and many others.

 

I believe this also explains a lot of the grumbling about the price of the M9.

 

At the moment you either pony up the 5500 Euros for the body or you don't play. There are a lot of M shooters out there who have invested a ton of cash in lenses and bodies and they are frozen out of the digital game, because the M9 is out of their reach and there is no alternative at a more reasonable cost. These people are not particularly happy and instead settled for a good DSLR.

 

A lot of people say that the lower cost alternative is the M8.x, but do you really want to buy a 3-4 year old quirky digital camera? Would you buy a 4 year old PC or Mac? Probably not. Besides, people buying used M8.x bodies does not put any cash in Leica's pocket.

 

Therefore I still argue for the need for a 2nd tier M-mount body. Call it a CL-D. They could stick a 12MP APS-H (x1.33) sensor in it and economize a little on the RF unit an build quality. Price it at around $3500 and I'll buy two. People who can't live without full frame and need 18MP will still buy the M9 (think D300 / D3 (D700)). The X1 is not this camera. It is a point and shoot. Probably the best P&S on the market, but it's no CL-D.

[nhabedi]

I believe this also explains a lot of the grumbling about the price of the M9.

 

FWIW, I haven't noticed "a lot of grumbling" about the M9's price. To the contrary, several people remarked that a) it is cheaper than expected and pretty good value for the money given that it's the smallest and lightest full frame digital camera available. YMMV, of course.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[biglouis]

I think the problem is that Leica prices have risen to the point where the cost exceeds the perceived value many consumer place on their offerings.

 

As an example, a few years ago I bought a Noctilux. Although it was very expensive I felt that the value I was getting in return, justified the high cost. The new Noctilux is about twice as much as the old one. I no longer feel that it delivers value equal to the price that Leica is asking.

 

Here's another one. Dlux-4 Safari edition. Are you really willing to spend an extra 200-300 euros for a green finish, instead of the standard black? The D-Lux 4 is already almost twice the cost of the Pana LX3, which is the same camera.

 

 

 

Well, I did vote with my wallet. I haven't purchased a new product from Leica since I got my M7 and 1.4/50 Lux. Since then Leica prices have moved in to the stratosphere and they lost me and many others.

 

I believe this also explains a lot of the grumbling about the price of the M9.

 

At the moment you either pony up the 5500 Euros for the body or you don't play. There are a lot of M shooters out there who have invested a ton of cash in lenses and bodies and they are frozen out of the digital game, because the M9 is out of their reach and there is no alternative at a more reasonable cost. These people are not particularly happy and instead settled for a good DSLR.

 

A lot of people say that the lower cost alternative is the M8.x, but do you really want to buy a 3-4 year old quirky digital camera? Would you buy a 4 year old PC or Mac? Probably not. Besides, people buying used M8.x bodies does not put any cash in Leica's pocket.

 

Therefore I still argue for the need for a 2nd tier M-mount body. Call it a CL-D. They could stick a 12MP APS-H (x1.33) sensor in it and economize a little on the RF unit an build quality. Price it at around $3500 and I'll buy two. People who can't live without full frame and need 18MP will still buy the M9 (think D300 / D3 (D700)). The X1 is not this camera. It is a point and shoot. Probably the best P&S on the market, but it's no CL-D.

 

I 100% agree with this analysis. It would make sense for Leica to drop the M8.2 and only offer the M8 as an entry level cropped sensor DRF at between £2-£2.5K. They must by now have amortised the development costs and I would have thought it would be better to keep customers as Leica customers rather than put them off by unattainable products (especially in this financial climate).

 

LouisB