ljclark Posted September 16, 2009 Share #21  Posted September 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm afraid that, even with all the advantages you guys are talking about, the perception of the camera among most people will be 'very expensive P&S'. You can change that perception straight away with a removable lens.  Ah. It's the flat form factor and non-interchangeable lens part.  Behold a P&S (Photos from Cosina's web site): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Bear with me a moment here. If I was going to reverse engineer things based on cameras I had been thinking about -- but wouldn't buy if the X1 proves out -- this Fuji/Cosina comes to mind. (Stephen Gandy is selling these for $2,250 US.)  Granted, this is not a 1:1 comparison, but the Bessa III represents a modernization of the P&S of 1/2 century ago -- in film. Perhaps the X1 does the same thing in digital.  Perception is not a hard and fast thing. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Bear with me a moment here. If I was going to reverse engineer things based on cameras I had been thinking about -- but wouldn't buy if the X1 proves out -- this Fuji/Cosina comes to mind. (Stephen Gandy is selling these for $2,250 US.)  Granted, this is not a 1:1 comparison, but the Bessa III represents a modernization of the P&S of 1/2 century ago -- in film. Perhaps the X1 does the same thing in digital.  Perception is not a hard and fast thing. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96961-is-the-x1-just-a-2000-ps/?do=findComment&comment=1037550'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Hi ljclark, Take a look here Is the X1 just a $2,000 P&S?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
plasticman Posted September 16, 2009 Share #22 Â Posted September 16, 2009 That's another camera that Leica can make if they feel the need to but interchangeable lenses have nothing to do with the X1 and there is a heap who buying a camera not perception......... your m8 plus lenses are overpriced. Â Fair enough - I hope so imants, I really do. Leica obviously can't make a camera that keeps every single person happy - I just wish they'd made one that made ME happy (that's the important thing, in my view). Â PS: The M8 may have been overpriced but the lenses are worth every penny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted September 16, 2009 Share #23 Â Posted September 16, 2009 I wish Leica had labled the X1 as the CMd. The CLd is another story for maybe another day! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo035 Posted September 16, 2009 Share #24 Â Posted September 16, 2009 Already it has been compared to the D-Lux 4, which I have because I cannot even afford to replace the M6 wish I'd never sold, let alone an M8 or 9. To me, it looks like a very sophisticated P&S (especially the inclusion of face detection), that I may buy if the lens is made wholly in Solms. The other deciding factor would be whether a I could see the difference between 10 x 8 prints produced from each of the two cameras. In any case I'll not be in a hurry to swap my D-Lux 4 for an X1 ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkphoto Posted September 16, 2009 Share #25 Â Posted September 16, 2009 Every camera ever made, no matter what its configuration, that has auto focus and auto exposure is in essence a P&S camera - pick up the camera; point it and shoot it. So yes, the X1 in its auto mode is a P&S. I only hope, and I mean really hope, that its image quality is beyond any other "pocket" P&S out there and that the files are "print-worthy". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share #26 Â Posted September 16, 2009 At least, Leica are not in want of defenders for their products, even if most of them (if not all) haven't even hold the thing yet, let alone make one photo with it. That's comforting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleran Posted September 16, 2009 Share #27 Â Posted September 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think the best thing is to try the X1 as soon as possible and make comparisons. If I can, I shall compare the images with those of a D-Lux 4 or my Digilux 2 and then we'll see if is right to spend three times as much ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hef Posted September 16, 2009 Share #28 Â Posted September 16, 2009 The only thing that detracts me on the X1 is the fixed non-removable lens. If i was able to throw other leica lenses on it, it would be a winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trs Posted September 16, 2009 Share #29 Â Posted September 16, 2009 I am sure there will be people who will love the camera and consider it cheap. I am sure it will be great camera. But, if I were to buy X1, I would simply buy a used M8 and put my 28Elmarit on it and done. I willing to pay few extra $ for used M8. But, again, that's just me and have no plan on buying X1. If it had zoom, I might consider. Â Or even get a 50 collapsible so it is pocketable easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted September 16, 2009 Share #30  Posted September 16, 2009 I would probably have bought one imants at this price too - with extra for those one or two interchangeable lenses that I was talking about. Little fast pancake lenses - one of them super-wide - the camera would be a killer. I'm afraid that, even with all the advantages you guys are talking about, the perception of the camera among most people will be 'very expensive P&S'. You can change that perception straight away with a removable lens.  Boring... Every year, same argument. If you can't afford it (and aren't even willing to try the camera) then please, why are you bothering to write and argue other people out of buying the camera?  Typical.  The PanaLeica LX3 D_4 is $400-600 (more for the low number "custom" finished ones). I've got one. Nice. Low light performance could be better. Is it "worth" in Leica badging what it sells for? I have no idea. Does it make someone happy? Does it take pictures which fit the bill? Than who cares what it costs? Same with the M9 and M8.  I rather like the Oly E series cameras, because they suit me. I had Contax G, because they suited me. I had a K-1000 and loved it. Be positive. If you want a small interchangeable lens camera then go get one of the new u Four-Thirds PanaOlys. I like them too.  Stop whining, Mr. Plastic. God gave thee credit cards to go forth and max out. So start maxing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted September 16, 2009 Share #31 Â Posted September 16, 2009 At least, Leica are not in want of defenders for their products, even if most of them (if not all) haven't even hold the thing yet, let alone make one photo with it. That's comforting. Â If there were fewer trolls, there would be fewer people defending Leica off-the-hip. Â It's like religion, in a way, but more tangible. Probably preferable too... I doubt that people will be fighting a hundred year war over cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 16, 2009 Share #32 Â Posted September 16, 2009 Boring... Every year, same argument. If you can't afford it (and aren't even willing to try the camera) then please, why are you bothering to write and argue other people out of buying the camera?...Stop whining, Mr. Plastic. Â You're a rude one aren't you? Oh well, maybe I have to line up a shot of my chrome M8 in its Luigi case and strap, with the Noctilux attached surrounded by the Elmarit 21, Canon 0.95, Canon 1.2, Summicron 90, Elmar 90, collapsible 50, and what have I forgotten...? Let's throw in the RD1s and the Nikon D90 with the 1,4G and I'm sure there's more... But you know - in the morning when we're both sober (at least I will be), I'm gonna regret this bragging*... And for the record, I don't want to argue other people out of buying it, I just wish it'd been made exactly the way I wanted... Â * a pretty conservative selection compared to most on here. But then I am after a mint chrome M6TTL as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 16, 2009 Share #33 Â Posted September 16, 2009 I just wish it'd been made exactly the way I wanted... Â Who doesn't? But in the end, there's only one X1 for now, and some will buy it while some (many) others won't. Like with any other camera, I might say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted September 16, 2009 Share #34 Â Posted September 16, 2009 Seems the D2 users are unhappy that a D4 didn't surface this time, but don't take it out on the X1 (CMd). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted September 17, 2009 Share #35 Â Posted September 17, 2009 No, the X1 is finally the DMD realized. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted September 17, 2009 Share #36 Â Posted September 17, 2009 No, the X1 is finally the DMD realized. Â Thank you John. At last someone here has it right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 17, 2009 Share #37 Â Posted September 17, 2009 Yes, but with a very big sensor and what appear to be first rate ergonomics. Â But it lacks a real viewfinder to be anything but a P&S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted September 17, 2009 Share #38 Â Posted September 17, 2009 come on guys, could we stop this endless discussion here and see things more in a positive way ? Â the x1 is a new member to the leica family and sure we can expect new versions in the future. if you don't like it, don't buy it, but please stop the bashing ! Â thank you, michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted September 17, 2009 Share #39  Posted September 17, 2009 What is a P & S camera. Is it a good thing or is it a bad thing? Is a Leica M a P & S? Or a IIIa?  For me a point and shoot is a camera with which I can work fast if I need to. Take a look at the picture of Willy Ronis http://www.richebe.com/blog/uploaded_images/Willy_Ronis-708007.jpg  This picture could have been made as follows: Willy Ronis was walking, as always he had set the shutter speed and diafragma according to the available light. At about 10 or 20 meter he saw this boy running into his direction. He knew the boy would pass him in a few seconds. He took his camera estimated the distance at which he wishes to take a picture of the boy. (this takes not even a second, he had plenty of time the boy is still not there) He turned the lens to the desired distance. (somewhere between 1.5 an 2 meter with a 35mm lens) He was ready to take the picture and waited until the boy would pass him. (for all this he had plenty of time) Then at the moment the boy was almost there he had to be quick. He had only one change. He took the camera to his eye points and shoot.  This is for me a P&S camera and this is what I want to be able to do with the X1. If I can use the X1 like this then I want that camera if I cannot then the X1 is not my piece of cake. If Willy Ronis had AF and he had used it he would never been able to take this picture because the AF would not have been fast enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted September 17, 2009 Share #40 Â Posted September 17, 2009 Seems the D2 users are unhappy that a D4 didn't surface this time, but don't take it out on the X1 (CMd). Yes, I am really unhappy that a D4 did not come. So, I will continue using my D2, for it continues to produce nice pictures in my hand. Nevertheless, the X1 will be a nice camera for those who did want exactly such a piece. And maybe one day we will have a D4 with an APS sensor and a 28-90 mm/ f 2.x lens... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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