lxlim Posted September 12, 2009 Share #81 Posted September 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean, you have said as much as any reasonable man can do to defend himself. More would be a waste of your time. Get some rest from this meaningless dross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Hi lxlim, Take a look here The Sour Grapes Duo. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ericperlberg Posted September 12, 2009 Share #82 Posted September 12, 2009 Sean, you have said as much as any reasonable man can do to defend himself. More would be a waste of your time. Get some rest from this meaningless dross. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #83 Posted September 12, 2009 Sean, you have said as much as any reasonable man can do to defend himself. More would be a waste of your time. Get some rest from this meaningless dross. Thanks Ixlim and all, I've decided the same. It's interesting that the people who have actually read the M8 and M9 reviews seem to have a very different perspective from those who have never read them yet still criticize them freely. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 12, 2009 Share #84 Posted September 12, 2009 The ISO section is now live so I can come back to this. 99% of the flack one takes on the web isn't worth paying any attention to. In this case, a spade should be called a spade. Here's the key quote: (those not interested in the discussion can certainly ignore this) ""Howard French is indeed absolutely to the point with his comments. Truly independent reporting is a scarce element in the current internet information explosion." Then read Howard's comments. Maybe not slander for Erwin but sour grapes for sure. it is completely obvious that leica craved for positive reviews and certainly this is why they invited some reviewers over. so far they got two rather uncrtitical reviews and a very nice and balanced one by sean reid. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share #85 Posted September 13, 2009 Mike Johnston has published an apology here: The Online Photographer I've added a post to the thread there that, I hope, will not be censored. "Howard French represent himself as a professional journalist and yet there is much in his comments that is not factual, largely because it was not researched. 1. Mr. French characterized the reviews by this group of people yet he hasn't actually read all of them. He has confirmed to me by e-mail, for example, that he hasn't actually read my reviews. 2. He states that "this group" of reviewers (listed above his comments as Phil Askey, Michael Reichman, Sean Reid, etc.) mislead the public about the M8. That isn't correct, of course, and Mr. French would have known that had he actually read all of the reviews he was speaking of. My M8 reviews, for example, document (in detail) more testable concerns and problems with the camera than I've ever seen covered in any set of M8 reviews by one reviewer. I didn't realize there were IR shifts in some of the pictures I published in my first review of M8 file quality but that aspect was not only discussed thoroughly shortly afterwards but solutions to it were explored more thoroughly than in any other set of articles, that I'm aware of, on the web. Because Mr. French did not do his homework (despite supposedly being a professional journalist) he did not test his theories against actual evidence (which lies in what was actually published and not in what he imagines was written). French is of course welcome to read or not read as he chooses. But to characterize and disparage work that he has not read is poor journalism and for someone featured as having his credentials one might expect more. So that's my fundamental concern with Mr. French's post. He negatively characterized writing that he, by his own admission, had never actually read. I'll let the other reviewers speak for themselves, if they choose to, but people who have actually read my coverage of the M8 and M9 (and this certainly includes Mike Johnston) will know that it looks carefully at both strengths and weaknesses in both cameras. In fact, there are certain weaknesses discussed in my M9 review that I have not yet seen covered (to date) in any other reviews. So when people consider Mr. French's comments they might want to consider, by analogy, how they feel when a camera is "reviewed" by a person who has never handled or worked with it. In my world, that is thought of as talking out of one's..um, hat. Sean Reid" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted September 13, 2009 Share #86 Posted September 13, 2009 Sean, I have not recently renewed my subscription, but with the advent of the M9 and X1 I will do that for sure. That out of the way - you were not the reviewer that came to mind when I read Howard's broadside. It is just not a line between two dots that I could draw and anyone who has read your work and comments would feel the same. My sense of you is that you are all about full disclosure and integrity with everything you write about including all sorts of gear not just Leica. A point that needs to be made is that you have been more than fair with VC and Zeiss lenses when held up against the vaunted Leica lenses quality, etc. For the sake full disclosure I rather like VC lenses including the new 50mm F1.1 I respect the right of Howard to have an opinion but that is all he has in this instance. Erwin Putts - is for me is like the sound of one hand clapping. Keep up the good work. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 13, 2009 Share #87 Posted September 13, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean, from the link you provided... "Sean Reid has stated his intention to proceed with a lawsuit against The Online Photographer (which means me, since TOP is not an LLC), so I will not be communicating with him except through our respective attorneys." Is this true? If so something that would quickly have disappeared from view will drag on, and on, and on. As I mentioned earlier, I would never have known about the article unless you had publicised it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 13, 2009 Share #88 Posted September 13, 2009 I don't think the question of lawsuit is true ... it would be simply ridicolus to go on court for such a litigation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 13, 2009 Share #89 Posted September 13, 2009 I don't think the question of lawsuit is true ... it would be simply ridicolus to go on court for such a litigation. I couldn't agree more with you, Luigi ... if anybody had a point and was serious about the debate right from the start, now it's just turning into a online drama. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted September 13, 2009 Share #90 Posted September 13, 2009 "In the heat of anger men often forget where their best interests lie." Kaspar Gutman (as portrayed by Sydney Greenstreet), Dashiell Hammett's "The Maltese Falcon" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fursan Posted September 13, 2009 Share #91 Posted September 13, 2009 Sean, personally I have not read any of your reviews of the M9.....since you have chosen not to respond to few of my pms re: payment renewal options to your site. Consequently, my subscription to your service has gone unrenewed. I used to enjoy them. As a consequence, I have to read other reviews and posts and try to form my impressions, the best I can...prior to buying a M9. Hence, from what I have read from others, nobody has been seriously out of line. Once bitten..... Best regards. Which of these reviews have you read? It may be that you agree with Howard because you and he have both not read the same articles. I don't know. If you're going to characterize them perhaps you want to be specific about which of the reviews concern you. You wouldn't be one to criticize an article you haven't read would you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 13, 2009 Share #92 Posted September 13, 2009 "In the heat of anger men often forget where their best interests lie." Kaspar Gutman (as portrayed by Sydney Greenstreet), Dashiell Hammett's "The Maltese Falcon" some people just take themselves and their work too seriously. i know that all too well from my professional environment. sometimes it is good to take a step 'outside' and try to look at yourself from an independent observer's position... peter Peter A. Markowich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 13, 2009 Share #93 Posted September 13, 2009 I think this could do Sean far more harm than good. Even if he wins the case - and let's say the worst happens and The Online Photographer folds - I think he'll lose a lot of sympathy with potential subscribers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc yyy Posted September 13, 2009 Share #94 Posted September 13, 2009 a self-serving thread ... seeking publicity, sympathy, and subscriptions ... where do i sign-up?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrodeur Posted September 13, 2009 Share #95 Posted September 13, 2009 Regardless of what happened with the M8, French's basic point is that it is a two-edge sword for an independent reviewer to be included in the exclusive pre-release group. On the one hand there is the desire to be the first with information, but it may also create an appearance of currying favor by the OEM. This is not a remarkable statement. Reid, whose independent reviews are his livelihood, has the choice of participating with the OEM in such a manner, or waiting to receive an off the shelf model. I would say that for Reid, and reinforced by his actions, the appearance of independence is more important than the scoop factor. I have no axe to grind with Reid, and have paid for and enjoyed his reviews. I would encourage him to cease this embarrassing lapse in judgment and rethink the ground-rules he needs to have for his relations with the OEs. BB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted September 13, 2009 Share #96 Posted September 13, 2009 Well I read TOP and saw his "Leica Links" but didnt go through the links to read what the reviewers said. Then I came across this post when it was still on page 1 ... and couldnt understand it. I wasnt sufficiently interested either - Storm in a Tea Cup IMHO. I still subscribe to Sean's reviews and find them interesting and also read TOP and also Mr Puts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucek Posted September 13, 2009 Share #97 Posted September 13, 2009 I too am waiting to hear if Sean intends to go through with a lawsuit against Mike Johnston. If so I'm afraid that I will have to refrain from renewing my subscription to Sean's site. That would be a shame as I really like reading Sean's reviews, but I do not want to support or condone these kinds of actions. Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonuniform Posted September 13, 2009 Share #98 Posted September 13, 2009 Too true! I'm sitting here sifting through the FUD, and trying to make sense of what people are trying to accomplish with their equipment. I just don't get this incessant, slavish devotion to some myopic definition of image quality - whether it's noise, latitude, whatever. Out of context, none of it matters. I like context - printing 24x36 vs. high-end magazine vs. billboard vs web. All this nattering over noise is missing the point of when to care about noise. Sean, I think the reality is that people most interested in "noise" as kind of pissing contest don't MAKE many prints. I'm often amazed by the kind of sweeping comments about this one factor in digital cameras..."The M8 is useless at 640" was one here recently. In the end if you are making prints and not just sniffing pixels on a monitor there are a lot more important issues than noise. Give me a file with detail in the shadows and highlights that are under control and I'll make you a decent print. Noise has to be JUMBO sized to show up in print in high megapixel cameras. Regarding advice from reviewers...I always find information from people who can actually use a product effectively is more useful. I've enjoyed your site because there is both technical detail and actual evidence of photography! A good combo! Best wishes Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted September 13, 2009 Share #99 Posted September 13, 2009 I think this could do Sean far more harm than good. Even if he wins the case - and let's say the worst happens and The Online Photographer folds - I think he'll lose a lot of sympathy with potential subscribers. It's a difficult situation for Sean isn't it, I feel for him. Feeling his integrity has been questioned he seems to feel he must set the record straight lest he lose the very credibility on which his work and success have been based. I can imagine his thoughts and emotions are intense, something I don't usually associate with his online personality (the only way I know him). And it must be an awful moment for Mike J who has been around forever and is really one of the few photography bloggers who mostly makes sense in what he writes and he writes well. He's always mentioned Sean with respect as far as I remember. On the legal point Sean may win, I don't know how the law works, but I fear that the social media posters who thrive on cynicism, schadenfreude and holier than thou POV will be whipped into a frenzy and Sean, Mike and Leica will all be made to look foolish. None of them really needs something like this. The social internet has some really ugly characteristics. And as you pointed out, by escalating the situation, he's driven a relatively obscure blog post into more prominence. I'm hoping they can work something out before this spins totally out of control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted September 13, 2009 Share #100 Posted September 13, 2009 If there is a lawsuit and all the yadayadayada by the principal party is entered in the court, I wonder what would happen. Stunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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