Stan Raucher Posted September 9, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just got back from an M9 demo. If you like to review your images in B&W, you will still have to shoot dng + jpeg with the M9. That slows things down and results in a lot of jpeg files to be discarded. Nikon allows a B&W review image to be embedded in the raw file without having to shoot raw + jpeg. Why can't Leica do this? Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Stan Raucher, Take a look here M9 - No B&W review for DNG only. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wilfredo Posted September 9, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 9, 2009 No option to shoot straight-up RAW in B&W? Are you sure about that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted September 9, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 9, 2009 Well, raw means... raw. Meaning all the information from the sensor, including all the color data, is there. If you want a B&W preview, yep, you gotta ask for a jpeg in addition to or instead of a DNG. Just throw them away in post if you don't want to keep them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted September 9, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 9, 2009 Why can't Leica do this? Stan because it's not a Nikon ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Raucher Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted September 9, 2009 Yes. Just like the M8, if you select dng only in the "Compression" setting, the menu options for Color Saturation, Sharpening and Contrast are "grayed out" and not selectable. If you select jpg or dng + jpg in the Compression setting and then choose Color Saturation - B&W, the jpgs and reviews will be in B&W and the dngs retain all color info. Switching the Compression back to dng after that reverts to giving color images in the review. It should be possible for Leica to change the firmware to allow dng only (retaining all color info) with a B&W review image embedded in the dng file. Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorOyster Posted September 9, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 9, 2009 The M8 would allow a b/w preview w/ dng only a looong time ago. Not sure why they changed it. I agree it's very annoying not having that option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Raucher Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, raw means... raw. Meaning all the information from the sensor, including all the color data, is there. If you want a B&W preview, yep, you gotta ask for a jpeg in addition to or instead of a DNG. Just throw them away in post if you don't want to keep them. Yes, you can do that, but shooting dng + jpg increases the processing time considerably. All raw images include an embedded jpeg for review on the lcd. Nikon allows that embedded image to be color or B&W, so Leica should be able to do the same. Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drteitelbaum Posted November 4, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 4, 2009 The first M8 firmware had a bug - but for me it was a feature - that if you selected BW in the JPG mode, and then switched to DNG - it would still display in BW until you went back into JPG and changed it to color. It was awesome! But some jerk must have complained, and they "fixed" it. Too bad. But it proves that even if you are shooting in RAW, the monitor can still display in BW. I saw someone comment something about RAW being RAW...true enough, but that doesn't mean that the monitor can't display any image in grayscale. Since so many Leica RAW users will plan to print in BW, it only makes sense that they figure out a way to enable this...I have to say that my BW photographic skills developed considerably by using BW monitors in the field to quickly test the effects of filters, examine contrast, etc. I hope Leica reads this string and takes this to heart! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 4, 2009 Share #9 Posted November 4, 2009 It's a common request and I'd certainly welcome it. The "shoot DNG & JPEG and discard the JPEGs" is not a very satisfactory solution because it slows the camera up considerably as it writes both formats to the card. The engineers at Leica must be aware of this often requested feature so there must be a reason why it hasn't been made available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 4, 2009 Yes-0 the limited processing power on the M8 would slow the camera down as much as as DNG+JPG, so it made no sense. On the M9 it should be better imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 4, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 4, 2009 Yes-0 the limited processing power on the M8 would slow the camera down as much as as DNG+JPG, so it made no sense. How so? The camera writes a preview (embedded JPEG?) of some sort anyway. What difference does it make if that preview ends up in B&W? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted November 4, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 4, 2009 The original M8 firmware created a B&W embedded jpeg preview in the RAW file if I recall correctly (when the jpeg saturation settings were set to B&W). It should take little or no more processing effort than creating the normal colour one that you get now when shooting DNG only - otherwise you would see a similar difference when choosing between colour and b&W jpegs. I too would prefer if when the camera is set to DNG only, it was possible to have the embedded jpeg be B&W. The majority of my images end up B&W and it is very useful to have the preview. Shooting DNG+jpeg does slow the camera unreasonably, and isn't really a desirable alternative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 4, 2009 How so? The camera writes a preview (embedded JPEG?) of some sort anyway. What difference does it make if that preview ends up in B&W? It was the official reason for the change - don't shoot the messenger.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 4, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 4, 2009 Yes-0 the limited processing power on the M8 would slow the camera down as much as as DNG+JPG, so it made no sense. On the M9 it should be better imo In the early days, you could set the M8 to DNG+JPG, set the mode to B&W, and then switch back to DNG only, and it would shoot in B&W. Unfortunately, this firmware was earlier than a lot of the better improvements, and at some point it just went away. Anyway, my point is that it wasn't any slower because of the B&W workflow. I would absolutely love to see this return. I don't buy the "Nikon has it, so Leica should too" argument though. Leica has a rangefinder on the M9. Does that mean that the D3x should also grow a rangefinder? That kind of argument just makes no sense. Each manufacturer does what they want. We need to ask it from Leica in sufficient numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccis Posted November 4, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 4, 2009 Being able to preview a B&W image while shooting DNG only is also a feature that I would love to have and have been asking in the past. Tip: Since we are forced to shoot DNG+JPG if we want to preview the image in B&W, set the JPG to the lowest resolution possible. This will minimize the file size and quality but will be a faster processing than if you are rendering a full resolution JPG... After all, we are going to discard the JPG file anyway as we should be doing all our custom B&W conversions from the DNG file. Hope this helps, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted November 5, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 5, 2009 I've said it before, several times, but Leica should definitely include this option in future firmware. Raw is raw, but JPEGs are a waste of space and processing time. And many Leica photographers do shoot RAW with the intention of processing and printing in B&W. I've switched over to DNG only because the camera is just too slow when shooting DNG + JPEG. But I really miss the B&W preview. I'm not an engineer or computer scientist but if Nikon can do it I see no reason Leica can't. It's a basic feature that should have been included on the M8 and M9 and there's no excuse for not offering it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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