J Mitchum Posted September 10, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm fairly certain it's Nikon. There were long standing rumors of Nikon working on a camera like this. Maybe it was something they didn't want do alone. Maybe their own version is on the way. Same sensor as the D300/D300s. 11 focus points like the D90/D5000. I'm guessing the electronics are made in Japan and then shipped to Solms for assembly with the body and lens. Thus far I see nothing stating that it is made in Germany. On the back it says "Leica Camera Germany" just as it does on the Panasonic manufactured models that are made in Japan. They did say it was assembled in Germany during the webcast. That could be enough to claim it as be made in Germany. By the way, what's the deal with the off-ceneter screws on the dials? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hi J Mitchum, Take a look here Where is X1 made?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chkphoto Posted September 10, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 10, 2009 Isn't there a big distinction between "Made in" and "Assembled in"? For U.S. autos you can say "Assembled in USA" about a car, but not Made in. "Made in" generally means that all pieces and parts where made in the country indicated. Am I wrong here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 10, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 10, 2009 I've thought about Sony but just had a hard time believing it, Michael ... most people who have worked in a Japanese company will tell you that making Sony and Panasonic work together is kind of ... a magic. For one thing I wouldn’t rule out any two Japanese companies working together, even Sony and Panasonic, as unlikely as that may appear. But most importantly there would have been no need to actually work together: Leica just might have been shopping around, buying hardware and software that happened to meet their needs. A contrast detection autofocus is basically just an algorithm; it wouldn’t care whether its input comes from a 12 MP interline-transfer CCD built by Panasonic (as in the Lumix DMC-FZ38) or from a 12 MP CMOS sensor built by Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeplanter Posted September 10, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 10, 2009 I'm fairly certain it's Nikon. Nikon buys their sensors from Sony. Jim B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 10, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 10, 2009 it wouldn’t care whether its input comes from a 12 MP interline-transfer CCD built by Panasonic (as in the Lumix DMC-FZ38) or from a 12 MP CMOS sensor built by Sony. There's really no comparison between these 2 ... LOL With the Sony sensor coupled with a Leica quality lens, I'm expecting the outcome to beat the D90, D300 and cohorts easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 10, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 10, 2009 Isn't there a big distinction between "Made in" and "Assembled in"? ... Quite right, but Germany's laws are different from ours. I think it has to do with where the final X% of value was created, but someone familiar with German law will have to speak to that. The R3 was clearly based on a Minolta body, but Wetzar made enough changes to it that it was "Made in Germany." "Made in Germany" has a certain amount of prestige for a German company, and Leica will do whatever is necessary for the product to take that stamp, just as they did on the M8. Germany is a fairly expensive place to produce, so I'm sure German laws are written to allow a meaningful use of the term "Made in Germany" while taking into consideration that a lot of production of a product has to go on outside the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azman Posted September 10, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thus far I see nothing stating that it is made in Germany. On the back it says "Leica Camera Germany" just as it does on the Panasonic manufactured models that are made in Japan. At the Leica web-site it says ' A real Leica "Made in Germany" ', but there's no picture of the bottom of the camera to confirm this. Fyi on the D-Lux 4, the 'Made in Japan' stamp/sticker is on the bottom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted September 10, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 10, 2009 The Mx are the only digital Leicas that say "Made in Germany". "Leica camera Germany" which is what it says on the X1, is the same as the language in the other compacts/digilux cameras made in Japan. I think Voigtlander still says "Germany" too, though it is now a Japanese company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 10, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 10, 2009 I was guessing it's a Nikon sensor considering the 1:5 crop factor. However, the choice of the word "ASSEMBLED" used at the presentation was obviously VERY carefully chosen. I think it's probably a "world" camera with components coming from multiple sources while some will be proprietary to camera. I don't think you'll see this camera badged under any other mfgr. I'm of the opinion that Leica is being very direct (finally) about how they will occupy the various "spaces" in the market. The can mix it up with the big box stores via the rebadged Panasonics (if those lines continue... and success would dictate they should) without getting their hands too dirty. They can provide a high-brow professional / serious hobbyist with the hybrid X1 giving them all the brand ego and true Leica DNA in the deal. They now have a TRUE M with the full frame digital restoring the purity back into the Leica Rangefinder and M class lenses. This accomplishment puts Leica back on top and on solid ground with the purists. (not that they had other choices). And with the S2, a ground breaking quasi medium format cum DSLR. The first space gives brand support and probably a tidy revenue stream. They compete without have to get dirty while competing. The second space they own with something that stands alone (to this point) The third space they own with something that stands alone and will probably continue... because who would want to compete with that? The fourth space, while they may not own, they've definitely let it be known they came to play. And, it's not a case of having to sell tens of thousands of units. Certainly, price is not a huge issue in this space. I think they've done a very commendable job of getting their house in order while restoring the brand and its legacy and are on track providing high quality and somewhat revolutionary new products. Good for them. Let's hope they're rewarded. It's been a bumpy road. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabahan Posted September 10, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 10, 2009 I believe the camera may be assemble and check in germany,but not build in germany,assemble and build is not the same. Leica itself do not have the knowledge in building electronic base camera,although I myself do use a few leica camera including the DMR,it was design and build in germany and every owner know what it an produce and what it cannot produce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 10, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 10, 2009 At the Leica web-site it says ' A real Leica "Made in Germany" ', but there's no picture of the bottom of the camera to confirm this... Leica can't claim "Made in Germany" if it doesn't meet German requirements for being "Made in Germany. Leica won't claim "Made in Germany" if it isn't legally "Made in Germany." You don't need to look at the bottom plate. The web presentation was more nuanced, saying it is assembled and checked in Solms. We're going in circles here: 1) Legally, it's "Made in Germany." But we don't know what that means. And it's beside the point. 2) Leica lenses on Panasonic cameras aren't "Made in Germany," but we accept them as having "Leica quality." We don't even know whether Panasonic farms them out to other concerns, though they probably come at least in part from China (extrapolation from digitalkamera.de: Besuch im Pearl River Delta, dem "Optical Silicon Valley" Chinas). 3) Leica is sharing the X1 with someone. Being "Made in Germany" doesn't change that, particularly since we don't know what is required to claim "Made in Germany." The question raised in the thread remains: Who is working on this with Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 10, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 10, 2009 I agree with Howard, it doesn't matter where these parts are made, putting them together and making it work is a great achievement. In that sense, made = assembled + designed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 10, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 10, 2009 The question raised in the thread remains: Who is working on this with Leica? It can be a big name or just anybody scarcely known except by the industry insiders. But that's not important, with a handful good tech geeks, Leica can do this by themselves too, the digital camera components are now highly modularized, the most important reason why all Japanese companies went for CMOS is because of its extremely high integration level of peripheral electronics, nearly all functions are realized in one chip or on one board, once you get that, you've already got almost the whole camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share #34 Posted September 10, 2009 Sorry, let me clarify. It's not that certain parts are made in Japan or elsewhere, camera assembled in Solms or such. Rather, Sean Reid, in his review of the X1, states that the 'X1 was designed by Leica but manufactured in Japan'. Is there a difference? To me, yes, if this camera is going to cost USD2k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 10, 2009 Share #35 Posted September 10, 2009 Sorry, let me clarify. It's not that certain parts are made in Japan or elsewhere, camera assembled in Solms or such. Rather, Sean Reid, in his review of the X1, states that the 'X1 was designed by Leica but manufactured in Japan'. Is there a difference? To me, yes, if this camera is going to cost USD2k. FT, I don't understand. To me, both thoughts are compatible: Basic assembly done in Japan, final assembly done at Solms. Now you say that because of the price, you want to know more. I don't understand the question. The finished product is assembled and tested to Leica standards by Leica technicians in Germany. It wouldn't make any difference to me--but maybe it does to you--if the finished product were assembled and tested to Leica standards by Leica technicians in China. The finished product meets Leica standards in either case. To me, that's the thing that matters. I need to figure out whether a particular product meets my needs and whether it's worth its price for me. The fact that a shutter comes from Japan and a lens from Canada and a body casting from a little old lady in Paris, Texas, is nothing more than interesting detail. My apology for putting words in your mouth. Clearly, I can't answer your question because I can't see how "Where is X1 made?" relates to its price. Good luck. I'm sure someone here can give you the information you're looking for! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 10, 2009 Share #36 Posted September 10, 2009 If you open it up, you'll probably see 2 or 3 big bones, if they are manufactured in Japan so what? As Andreas has confirmed, its final assembly is done in Solms and most importantly, it is designed in Germany ... which is the point. I'm actually glad to hear it's made in Japan and willing pay "more" for it. European countries are probably good at many other stuff but definitely not in consumer electronics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparobertsan Posted September 10, 2009 Share #37 Posted September 10, 2009 looks like sigma dp-2! They used to make Vario elmar R28-70 3.5-4.5. Thay can do it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 10, 2009 Share #38 Posted September 10, 2009 looks like sigma dp-2! No, the Foveon sensor in the DP-2 is a) smaller and not CMOS. There's no similarity at all. And they certainly wouldn't work for their only direct competitor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 10, 2009 Share #39 Posted September 10, 2009 The only real issue is if we will see or not a very similar camera, with another brand, on the market some months from now. With Panasonic has been, historically, the inverse, but they could have made a different deal with someone else : Samsung is a not uneven possibility... they are much less agressive than Panasonic on bringing out new products at a quick rate. I would think it to be extremely unrealistic that a Japanese vendor would accept to give all the marketing thunder to Leica only to release its own model (identical except for cosmetic changes) later. That simply won't happen and I'm willing to bet... I'd also be surprised if we'd see a compact camera from the Far East with such a clear-cut and traditional (call it "retro" if you want) set of controls anytime soon. Panasonic tried that once with the Digilux 2 (being nudged by Leica at that time) and it seems they weren't happy with it. What Samsung has announced a long time ago and still not delivered (the NX) looks very different and is more of the I-want-to-look-like-an-SLR type like the Panasonic G1. Judging from the size of the sensor, my money is on Nikon/Sony. I had a brief chat with a Leica representative at the Leica event in Hamburg yesterday, and while he certainly didn't give away any secrets and wouldn't reveal who made the sensor, he made it pretty clear that with the X1 Leica wanted to leave the "re-badged Panasonic" trap and offer their own thing. Of course, that will still mean that the electronic components are from some other company and it might mean that some parts are pre-assembled in Asia, but I really wouldn't wait for "the same camera" to pop up elsewhere from a different vendor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 10, 2009 Share #40 Posted September 10, 2009 Luigi, one should never underestimate Samsung, in semiconductor, cell phone, and flat panel industries they are way ahead of Panasonic. Yes, Samsung is a worldwide leader in many basic technologies... I just pointed out that, for somereasons, they did not play hard, till now, in the digital camera market, and can be well disposed that a camera with their hardware reaches the market first with another brand (and a good one, indeed... ) , and then with their own one. BTW... on Samsung... I seem to remember that a P & S from them had a lens "Schneider Kreuznach" branded, or am I wrong ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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