scott kirkpatrick Posted September 9, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mike Johnston at TOP has weighed in with a piece that reads as if it has been fermenting inside him for some time. Leica, he has now decided, is a Veblen good, an economic anomaly of which the more it costs, the more are sold. He is ignoring the S2, which will have trouble pulling off that feat, and focuses on the M9 announcement. Is anyone here disappointed to see a $6995 pricetag, hoping for $8k, in their dreams paying $9995? I didn't think so. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi scott kirkpatrick, Take a look here M9 a "Veblen Good" ???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 9, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 9, 2009 His comment on "too expensive" is worth reading too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
subotic Posted September 9, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 9, 2009 Here is the URL to the Wikipedia article about the definition of veblen goods: Veblen good on Wikipedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted September 9, 2009 His comment on "too expensive" is worth reading too. Yes, it is the same article. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 9, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 9, 2009 Anyway, I somehow doubt that Leica cameras qualify as Veblen goods, as their status is only recognized within the photographic community, not so much by the general public. And within the photographic community, at least the sensible part thereof, the status is coupled to the quality, not the bling factor per se. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted September 9, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 9, 2009 In a Western World where the median salary is probably in the €4000-€5000 range, a M9 is about one to two months salary and assuming net savings of 20% a month, this is about 6 months of savings. So to the average worker, this is a substantial investment. Nevertheless if photography is his passion (like it could be watches, cars, hi-fi or whatever) , is camera is all day with him and will last 5 years, €5'500 M9 is within reach, depending of course on his priorities. I don't believe in the Veblen theory either as 99% of people will react to a Leica as a cute little antique camera and have no clue that a new digital version costs a month salary. So the snob effect is pretty low here IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 9, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) In a Western World where the median salary is probably in the €4000-€5000 range. Are you sure about this ? This site states that the average salary before tax is 2661 euros in France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 9, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 9, 2009 Les cadres touchent un salaire de 5 366 euros en moyenne. The second part of the statement goes on to say that the average monthly salary of the middle classes, I would say that is the low end of Leica's target customer profile (no negative slur intended), is 5366 Euro. Are you sure about this ? This site states that the average salary before tax is 2661 euros in France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted September 9, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 9, 2009 Are you sure about this ? This site states that the average salary before tax is 2661 euros in France. Yes, but if you factor in the US, Japan, Germany that are Leica's big markets, I think it is not too far off, especially since most households have more than one salary nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 9, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 9, 2009 In Germany, in 2006 the average salary was just over 40.000 Euro a year. In our country the highest listed salary is for airline pilots, average 10.701 Euro a month, top 21.701 a month. All middle class professions are between 4000 and 7000 Euros a month average. Gemiddeld Inkomen > Per beroep Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 9, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 9, 2009 Are you sure about this ? This site states that the average salary before tax is 2661 euros in France. ...so the median is less than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 9, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, but if you factor in the US, Japan, Germany that are Leica's big markets, I think it is not too far off, especially since most households have more than one salary nowadays. Ah right, a multi-income household seems more on the mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted September 9, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 9, 2009 In our country the highest listed salary is for airline pilots, average 10.701 Euro a month Great, I did not know that the Netherlands had already cut down on the traders bonuses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ru_di Posted September 9, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 9, 2009 In Germany, in 2006 the average salary was just over 40.000 Euro a year. [/url] but not as a net income...... from this salary in germany approx 55% get paid as net income to your bankaccount....the rest is tax, health insurrance, retirement, social etc etc and i do not believe many people in this income class have 20% of their net salary available to save.... just my 2 cents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 9, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 9, 2009 The second part of the statement goes on to say that the average monthly salary of the middle classes, I would say that is the low end of Leica's target customer profile (no negative slur intended), is 5366 Euro. no, no, "cadres" does not mean "middle class" it means directors, etc. And these indicators are salary before tax.... I don't know what the average income tax rate is but in Belgium where I live, work and pay taxes it's about 40% (!!!) for my income level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harald_ludwig Posted September 9, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 9, 2009 Hello just for real life input, in Austria the median brutto incom per year is 23.500 Euro. This is abaout 1.900 Euro per month. However it´s not so easy to compare this dates as there exists a 13th and 14th month income in Austria as well. Harald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 9, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 9, 2009 That would mean the average income in France is a bit lower than the Netherlands, and considerably lower than in germany (in so far as these figures can be compared. )And yes - we go up to 52 % income tax over here.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted September 9, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 9, 2009 how about Sweden and Denmark? they have probably highest taxes. probably 60% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 9, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 9, 2009 That would mean the average income in France is a bit lower than the Netherlands, and considerably lower than in germany (in so far as these figures can be compared. )And yes - we go up to 52 % income tax over here.. Of course the number will be different from country to country depending on income tax rates, inflation rates, housing costs and a whole lot of economical factors. But my point was that yanidels estimate of an income of 4000-5000 euros after tax per month for one salary just seems way over the mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppepop Posted September 9, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 9, 2009 how about Sweden and Denmark? they have probably highest taxes. probably 60% Not 60, but close enough. :-) The level is progressive, and increases with the income. Juniors starts at around 30% and seniors end up around 55%. But, as with everything, there are ways to get a 'discount'. It's hard to compare income levels without also comparing expense levels, such as health insurances, costs for savings that goes to pension funds, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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