tmanley Posted September 6, 2009 Share #301 Posted September 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Tina I ~think~ this is him... Tres Dias in Cuba - Images | Bruno Stevens Yes, that's the one I suggested. UliWer said it was the one listed in the brochure - Maik Scharfscheer - but his portfolio is all studio stuff and lots of hands holding Leicas. I don't think he did the reportage even though he's listed as author photographer. Tina www.tinamanley.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 Hi tmanley, Take a look here M9 full specs and pictures are out. Let's discuss.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
zlatkob Posted September 6, 2009 Share #302 Posted September 6, 2009 "Author's Photography" is an odd way to give credit, but the brochure photos look very much like Maik Scharfscheer's style, not like Bruno Stevens' style. I don't know why Scharfscheer would be named in the brochure if he did not do the boxing photos. Also, Scharfscheer lists Leica as a client on his web site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 6, 2009 Share #303 Posted September 6, 2009 It's a little clumsy in the environment of present day sensitivities to have our Cuban Boxer greeting his girlfriend in the photo labelled "Leica M - Accessories"! Chris Yes, I - umm - noticed that, too. -------------------------- Maik Scharfscheer is the photographer for the photoessay on the Cuban boxer: Maik Scharfscheer : Art.Fair21, CANTON, AMBIENTE - News - GoSee Maik Scharfscheer Profi Photographer on Flickr - Photo Sharing! Maik Scharfscheer : SIGNATURE perfume campaign, SHIRE pharmaceuticals and CANTON commercial - News - GoSee http://www.gosee.de/news/photography/new-maik-scharfscheer-photographer-frankfurt-1888 credited on page 86 of the brochure (pages 44 of the pdf) Interesting that he also does ad campaign work for Leica Microsystems. From one of the Links: "Our NEW recruit Maik Scharfscheer lived in Paris for a few years before he set up camp in Frankfurt. His main focus is on people, beauty and fashion photography. He has already portrayed countless celebrities and artists for ad campaigns. He has just got back from Dallas, where he was photographing a famous scientist for Leica Microsystems. Further motifs of famous scientists and Nobel Prize winners have already been shot in Tokyo, Boston, Chicago, Genua and Nizza. Before that Maik shot a POS campaign for German bank COMMERZBANK in Cape Town. The first motif (Cabrio) can currently be seen in all branches of the bank. For NIKE he photographed the new fitness collection with signed athletes in his studio. After Maik finished the latest hand campaign for LEICA CAMERA, which involved taking photos of the hands of Eric Clapton, Bryan Adams in London, Nan Goldin in Paris and Christopher Forbes in New York, he photographed another campaign for the new Leica Camera. " --------------------------- The leaked pdf, BTW, is a "production" pdf, intended for creating the print version, as can be seen by the crop marks retained around the edges, and the fact that the black covers do not bleed to the edges (but do bleed to the crop marks). It will be cropped and re-exported when Leica needs a "finished" .pdf for official web download. A clue to anyone at Leica tracking down where the leak occurred. Somewhere between the design firm and the printer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psss Posted September 6, 2009 Share #304 Posted September 6, 2009 It's a little clumsy in the environment of present day sensitivities to have our Cuban Boxer greeting his girlfriend in the photo labelled "Leica M - Accessories"! Chris i thanks...i thought i was weird for thinking the same thing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 6, 2009 Share #305 Posted September 6, 2009 I think the case was perhaps over-stated, since even Canon has a few good lenses, but even with their very best lenses (35L, 85L, and somewhat the 135L), there is noticeable chromatic abberation, and with the 35L, also softness. The modern Leica lenses are in those two aspects significantly better. These L lenses aren't bad though, so it depends on your standards, and how much you are willing to correct in software before considering the results good. in general i do agree that leica lenses are better than canikon lenses, but at least nikon (i do not know so much about canon, so i refrain from commenting) has caught up on lens construction quite a lot. my 14-24mm on D3 gets very close to the 16-18-21 tri-elmar and in some categories beats it, even comparing nikon on full frame and leica on 1,3 crop. i do understand that the 16-18-21 is not leica's strongest lens and i would not put it on the m9 while the 14-24 does very well on the fullframe D3(x), even at f2.8. certainly fast wide angle primes are missing from the nikon lens lineup. this is where -in my view- leica excels. for everything > 50 mm DSLR photography clearly beats rangefinders...again in my view. peter markowich's Photo Galleries at pbase.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted September 6, 2009 Share #306 Posted September 6, 2009 because of the lenses.no canon lens is made to be used wide open. Then obviously you have never used the 35 or 85L. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 6, 2009 Share #307 Posted September 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) $6500 for a body is a lot of cash. Even more so for one that is specialized. Not everyone is brave enough to do macro or tele work with a Visoflex... A basic kit of one M9 body and a single lens will run you anywhere from around $8000 to over $10,000. Make that around $17,000 is you are brazen enough to pare it with a Noctilux. What is $6500? The only known price is €5500, which translates to about $7850. You will probably get a little lower than that, but not much. Prices like that makes something like a Nikon D3x look like a bargain. Not at all. I have looked at this camera again and again and each time I have concluded that the Nikon lens system does not offer what I want, by far. A few good zooms, a couple of good lenses, and a whole slew of mediocre stuff. Given this fact, the camera can be as good as it wants, it can never approach what I can do with an M8 or M9, in real-life terms. For someone else, this might be different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 6, 2009 Share #308 Posted September 6, 2009 Then obviously you have never used the 35 or 85L. Depends on your standards. Some of us used to own Canon, and abandoned it. Both of those lenses have *significant* amounts of CA, especially wide open. And of course, the Canon sensors have AA filters, so you need to mentally deduct some resolution to get things sharp again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted September 6, 2009 Share #309 Posted September 6, 2009 the Canon sensors have AA filters, so you need to mentally deduct some resolution to get things sharp again. The M9 does not need IR filters on the lens.... so let's see what them've put on the sensor to avoid it and let's see how it affects the file... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted September 6, 2009 Share #310 Posted September 6, 2009 You can't think of this in broad terms and feel that it speaks for every demographic. Up until the great crash of 08, my income as a photographer was excellent to outstanding, growing an average of 20% per year. So had I not built an immense...and I do mean immense system of around 4 different formats of cameras and lenses for my future in photography, fine art film work, I would not be able to mix, match and move around my equipment like I can now and even consider the M9. But back to the demographic, there are going to be a lot of people who buy the M9 ( if Leica nailed it ) that you are not considering, and I am talking strictly pros here. In my case in specific, I shoot commercial, stock, fine art and some editorial. I mostly depend on my Nikon system for digital work, but with immensely able glass like the 14-24 and 200-400, I also shoot film with it. I tried the M8 for over a year as I wanted to be able to use my Leica M glass with more than just Kodachrome, but that camera fell short in many ways for me, so I sold it off. Now I have the M9 I am looking at, I can sell some of the duplicate primes in my Nikon lineup, the D3 and still have a knock out Nikon system while fully employing my Leica glass while on the road for the next 16 months for the Kodachrome Project. So there is just one example of a person who thinks that $6,500 for the M9 will be money well spent if it simply does what I expect it to. All I ever wanted a digital M to do is what my film M's do, provide a place to put my fantastic Leica glass and let me exploit them fully without getting in the way of making great images. The M8 with it's IR filters, crop factor and iffy reliability most definitely got in the way. I am hoping the M9 gets back to the functionality of my M6, MP3, M3, etc. Oh, and by the way, in sacrificing nearly everything in my life for the Kodachrome Project, my income has dropped over 60% compared to last year and will only *slightly* improve next year.........Leica, are you listening? Sponsorship for the Kodachrome Project? I think the point that Egibaud is trying to make is that unless you are very well off or making tons of cash from your photography, the M9 is a very expensive piece of gear that is out of reach for the vast majority of working photographers or enthusiasts. $6500 for a body is a lot of cash. Even more so for one that is specialized. Not everyone is brave enough to do macro or tele work with a Visoflex... A basic kit of one M9 body and a single lens will run you anywhere from around $8000 to over $10,000. Make that around $17,000 is you are brazen enough to pare it with a Noctilux. Prices like that makes something like a Nikon D3x look like a bargain. back when film was still king, a friend of mine used to joke that in order to make the prices he was paying for his Leicas look more reasonable, he would occasionally pull out the Hasselblad catalog and flip through a few pages. That seems to still hold true today. Any serious pro is going to need two bodies. If you purchased 2 x M9 bodies with the 1.4/35 Lux ASPH and 1.4/50 ASPH you would be looking at a solid $20,000 - 21,000. Some of these people live on that amount of money for a year. Even if you go with the cheaper Summicron or Summarit lenses were are talking about a very serious amount of money. The vast majority of photographers are poorly paid. Most photojournalists, whom everyone idolizes as the epitome of the scarf clad Leica shooter, hold a second civilian job to be able to eat. The M9 isn't even on their radar screen. So, while I am very happy to see the arrival of the M9, I know I will not be buying one anytime soon. $6500 buys a mountain of Tri-X and a used IMACON scanner or a mountain of Tri-X and an airplane ticket to some far flung corner of the world to take pictures. I'm also a little ticked off that Leica released the X1, instead of a digital CL with an optical viewfinder / RF. Where is that more reasonably priced alternative to the M9, that is also a serious tool for serious or working photographers and not a fancy and very expensive point and shoot for the well healed? EVF is for kids. There's not a single professional camera out there that uses one and there are several very good reasons why. Leica better watch out, because the moment there is a viable alternative on the market a lot of people that feel burned are going to turn on them and take their money elsewhere. Now, some people may say in response: 'Good, see you later and don't let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out' . But they should also remember what happened to Leica in the 1960's, when the Nikon F came out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 6, 2009 Share #311 Posted September 6, 2009 I'm sorry, but no SLR can substitute for a rangefinder, and no rangefinder can substitute for an SLR - except among the lowest common denominator of photographers who can't tell the difference. As Charles Harbutt once said: "Rangefinder photographers see the world sharp; SLR photographers see the world at f/1.4". As Bill Pierce once said: "Looking into an SLR is like watching a slide show in a dark room; looking through a rangefinder is like looking through a window." As David Alan Harvey once said: "Shooting with a rangefinder is as different from an SLR as shooting with an SLR is different from a 4x5." As I once said: "SLR photography is about composing in space - rangefinder photography is about composing in time." Canon 5Dii - 810g without battery Nikon D700 - 995g without battery Sony A850 - 895g without battery Leica M9 - 585g WITH battery If Nikon, Canon or Sony produce a manual-focus digital rangefinder (and I am sure they are competent to do so - at a price), we'll have alternatives to compare to the Leica M. Until then, they are irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 6, 2009 Share #312 Posted September 6, 2009 As Charles Harbutt once said: "Rangefinder photographers see the world sharp; SLR photographers see the world at f/1.4". Ironic, considering that most SLR lenses are no good at f/1.4, and one of the key strengths of the Leica M is the abundance of lenses which are sharp wide open, not to mention the abundance of f/1.4 (and better) lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 6, 2009 Share #313 Posted September 6, 2009 What is $6500? The only known price is €5500, which translates to about $7850. You will probably get a little lower than that, but not much... I understand that the EUR 5,500 price is VAT included. Means about EUR 4,700 export price i.e. USD 6,700 in round figures. FWIW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 6, 2009 Share #314 Posted September 6, 2009 Well, I hope you are right, but I would be surprised if it would be that low. There is a shipping and infrastructure overhead too. Perhaps it will be $6999, continuing the 9-theme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 6, 2009 Share #315 Posted September 6, 2009 Ironic, considering that most SLR lenses are no good at f/1.4, and one of the key strengths of the Leica M is the abundance of lenses which are sharp wide open, not to mention the abundance of f/1.4 (and better) lenses. the leica lenses are the only reason (for me) to get back into the rangefinder world, although i consider the camera an anachronism. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 6, 2009 Share #316 Posted September 6, 2009 Carsten - a reminder. Prices in the US do not include a VAT. I repeat, because it is always forgotten: Prices in the US do not include a VAT. Right now, today: M8.2 at Meister Camera - Berlin - €4995 = (by your calculations, $7,148) M8.2 at B&H - NY = actual price $5,995 (plus sales tax calculated separately, and not charged on mail orders to most states outside NY) M9 costs €505 more than M8.2 (we suspect) €505 = $723 $5,995 + $723 = $6,718 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted September 6, 2009 Share #317 Posted September 6, 2009 I understand that the EUR 5,500 price is VAT included. Means about EUR 4,700 export price i.e. USD 6,700 in round figures. FWIW. My pre-order price is USD6,200, or around EUR 4,330, all in. So far, I've not heard/seen a better price anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted September 6, 2009 Share #318 Posted September 6, 2009 The usable DR is only the largest value divided by the smallest step. Surely DR should be about the range of the underlying signal itself rather than how you go about digitizing it. With your definition the nonlinear mapping in the M8 gives "16-bit DR" with only 8 bits. Regards Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 6, 2009 Share #319 Posted September 6, 2009 Hmm. having done roughly 40 weddings a year for years... I never brought 4 cameras, always two. back then F4 was my camera of choice for weddings, and they got dropped and banged up so much with no ill effect that I simply could not imagine two failing the same day. I would have been smart to offer the M6 at that point, but back then shooting Leica and film was not a competitive advantage. Things have changed, at least in Los Angeles, today shooting a rangefinder is a competitive advantage and you can easily demand more money and also book additional jobs. I have never had a style of photography requiring me to bang out 5-8 frames per sec of a bouquet toss and kiss, and one 4-8 gig card should be plenty for most weddings. my biggest concern is to pull out the card and drop a backup to a EPSON drive every now and then out of fear of a card failure. Leica could have put a little grin on my face with a double SD card slot and "save to both" option.. kind of a SD Raid in camera. totally unnecessary sure, totally professional YES. Im happy with that I have seen, the M9 is simple like a M6 and delivers full frame digital files. thats about all I was hoping for. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chmilar Posted September 6, 2009 Share #320 Posted September 6, 2009 It will be interesting to see if Leica will offer some incentives to purchase. If I recall, when the M8 came out, Leica offered free coding on two lenses, and eventually two IR/UV filters. As an owner of five uncoded lenses, an offer of free coding for at least two lenses would encourage me to buy an M9 sooner. Of course, when the M8 came out, no lens that was already in someone's gear bag was coded, so Leica really had to offer the free coding. Now, most M8 owners who are upgrading will have coded lenses, but there must be plenty of film shooters who will make the transition to the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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