bill Posted August 28, 2009 Share #41 Posted August 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I look to build a rapport with anyone who is providing me with a service, whether it is offering a cup of tea to a boiler maintenance man or "flirting" with a waitress. They are human beings and will always respond better if they feel that you recognise that small but significant fact. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Hi bill, Take a look here I did not order an M9 today. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Eoin Posted August 28, 2009 Share #42 Posted August 28, 2009 I look to build a rapport with anyone who is providing me with a service, whether it is offering a cup of tea to a boiler maintenance man or "flirting" with a waitress. They are human beings and will always respond better if they feel that you recognise that small but significant fact. Regards, Bill :D Are we different?. :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted August 28, 2009 Share #43 Posted August 28, 2009 Having read the op I am still more sympathetic to Dubois than other responders. There is no way I expect to have to form a personal relationship with someone to get good service if I am the owner of a premium product like a Leica camera. The fact that service response seems variable is not a sign of a particularly well organised company, or even worse, the sign of a company who has a questionable commitment to its owners. I'm sure that is not the case with Leica but it makes me worried when I read a post like this. Furthermore, Leica are not afraid to maintain premium prices. They are the only manufacturer I can think of who is actually increasing their prices in an economic recession. They really should build into their model premium support for a premium product. LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 28, 2009 Share #44 Posted August 28, 2009 Price in purchasing will usually remain a factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdubois Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share #45 Posted August 28, 2009 Having read the op I am still more sympathetic to Dubois than other responders. There is no way I expect to have to form a personal relationship with someone to get good service if I am the owner of a premium product like a Leica camera. The fact that service response seems variable is not a sign of a particularly well organised company, or even worse, the sign of a company who has a questionable commitment to its owners. I'm sure that is not the case with Leica but it makes me worried when I read a post like this. Furthermore, Leica are not afraid to maintain premium prices. They are the only manufacturer I can think of who is actually increasing their prices in an economic recession. They really should build into their model premium support for a premium product. LouisB Thank you Biglouis. This is exactly what I was trying to convey but was clearly unable to. Dubois Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 28, 2009 Share #46 Posted August 28, 2009 But what _is_ the true level of complaints with new product? I certainly don't know, do you? Yes, for the individual it's very, very, bad news, but you can't extrapolate from isolated incidents and say anything about the percentage of this or that. To do that you need figures. Number of units sold, number of units faulty. Number of units sent in for repair, number of units repaired within 5 working days. Again, these are numbers I have absolutely no idea about. Maybe it's time for you to call Stefan Daniel again. I do not have the data you mention. I have like you seen time and time again hopefully isolated incidents on what is a £4000 camera and we had several again isolated incidents with respect to the £7000 Noctilux . Against that we have: > Just seen in this thread a camera returned 4 times in 2 years. > Then there was the Leica M8 that was a fully "re checked" demo camera that did not work and after some exasperation was eventually replaced. > I have my own experiences > My dealer in UK (and France) have told me that they see it all the time and it is frustrating for all concerned. OK you may wish to tell me that on a build quantity of 10,000 cameras there will be a few (very few hopefully) problem new or nearly new cameras (Actually that is not the quality attitude of the SC industry). You can say that I have just heard about (or experienced) the rare situations. If this is the case I am surprised that Stefan does not publish the data as part of the annual presentation...year on year quality improvement and amount of rework in production. etc etc. I shall suggest it next time I talk to him as you proposed. I come from a semiconductor culture where one looks at continuous improvement as a religion and client feedback drives improvement. I remain amased that Leica do not follow their clients and have them fill out a questionnaire to drive their continuous improvement activity. The director quotes 80% fixed in a week ...This is his number not mine! I feel that you think that we should all be happy. ...oh! and we are usually told how lucky we are because Canon and Nikon are as bad.. Frankly I have a huge affection for Leica and I would hope that they are striving for something better than needing to build special personal relationships or buy flowers to get a camera repaired properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 28, 2009 Share #47 Posted August 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I look to build a rapport with anyone who is providing me with a service, whether it is offering a cup of tea to a boiler maintenance man or "flirting" with a waitress. They are human beings and will always respond better if they feel that you recognise that small but significant fact. Regards, Bill I feel sorry for the waitress.....I also hope that the boiler man is a big fellow who understands your humour and can repair your Leica if you give him a bouquet of flowers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 28, 2009 Share #48 Posted August 28, 2009 Having read the op I am still more sympathetic to Dubois than other responders. There is no way I expect to have to form a personal relationship with someone to get good service if I am the owner of a premium product like a Leica camera. The fact that service response seems variable is not a sign of a particularly well organised company, or even worse, the sign of a company who has a questionable commitment to its owners. I'm sure that is not the case with Leica but it makes me worried when I read a post like this. Furthermore, Leica are not afraid to maintain premium prices. They are the only manufacturer I can think of who is actually increasing their prices in an economic recession. They really should build into their model premium support for a premium product. LouisB Absolutely correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 28, 2009 Share #49 Posted August 28, 2009 I feel that you think that we should all be happy. ...oh! and we are usually told how lucky we are because Canon and Nikon are as bad.. Not at all Frank, what I'm saying is that we can't make any judgement on how good or bad the Leica service is without knowing the numbers. We don't know the numbers. The only incidents I'm aware of with the Noctilux have been with pre-production samples. I haven't heard of any problems with lenses that have been sold to the general public, but I may have missed the relevant thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 28, 2009 Share #50 Posted August 28, 2009 Dubois, that is good news for you. I hope that you receive your camera back quickly now and without fault. Well done for taking the trouble to follow up and post your comment that it is now underway and ahead of time. I agree that dealing with Solms direct can be the most efficient way to have some work done. Most especially if you are very far away as I am here. One factor beyond Leica's control for any items sent out of Germany is the time to obtain customs clearance which appears to be variable. Andy I'd generally agree with you but in the case of my M8 and the nature of the failure it had to go back to Solms anyway and going via the dealer would just have lengthened the process. Anyway, the GOOD NEWS is that their online tracking shows that shipment is now in progress and ahead of time as specified yesterday. Thankyou Leica. :) Dubois Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 28, 2009 Share #51 Posted August 28, 2009 ..... I remain amased that Leica do not follow their clients and have them fill out a questionnaire to drive their continuous improvement activity. The director quotes 80% fixed in a week ...This is his number not mine!....... To answer those specific points: Leica Camera AG - Service - Customer Survey I also received a printed request to complete the survey when I received my lenses after they were checked and adjusted under guarantee following my M8 upgrade. I received email back from Leica acknowledging my completion of the surveys both for my Camera upgrade while in Solms and my two lenses which Leica volunteered to check following my M8 upgrade. What the Customer Service Division Head actually explained to forum members visiting was that items received for repair are first booked in then an initial inspection and assessment is made. An estimate may then need to be sent to the customer for approval if the repair is not a guarantee issue. On receipt of that approval back from the customer, then subject to parts availabilty they aim to have most repairs completed within that week period. The item then requires customs clearance paperwork and packing for dispatch. In my specific instance the time from initial booking at their front desk to completion of the adjustments and servicing under guarantee was four weeks. Customs paperwork followed that and actual delivery from Germany to Australia was via courier and took only a few days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 28, 2009 Share #52 Posted August 28, 2009 Don't ever let the facts stand in the way of a good story! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 29, 2009 Share #53 Posted August 29, 2009 Especially in view of recent posts with reference to moderators I must let you know that I find the tone of your answers to my post if not rather unpleasant then certainly undiplomatic. Dubois Dubois, you still seem to be labouring under the impression that I was referring to you. Re-read my original comment that seems to have raised your ire. There is a thinly disguised reference to whom I was referring. And as i said, my original comments are true as an opinion. There is no imperative for you to agree or respond with personal inferences. With regard to you remark about "recent posts with reference to moderators", I can only say, how is that relevant to what I have said or done? I will stand by my own words and action. Please don't apply a spectrum of words of commentators to me. Certainly, that is unpleasant and undiplomatic! As an afterthought, as you seem intent on pursuing an argumentative attitude, I suggest you PM me and not further disrupt the forum with 'private grievances.' I am prepared to be receptive to any points you wish to persue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdubois Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share #54 Posted August 29, 2009 As an afterthought, as you seem intent on pursuing an argumentative attitude, I suggest you PM me and not further disrupt the forum with 'private grievances.' I am prepared to be receptive to any points you wish to persue. Nah, never bother with that sort of thing. Life's too short and anyway the sun is shining, my camera's fixed and on its way back ahead of schedule and time to go and welcome back the 17 year old round the world sailor returning today. Now that is an achievement! Have a good life! Dubois Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 29, 2009 Share #55 Posted August 29, 2009 Nah, never bother with that sort of thing. Life's too short and anyway the sun is shining, my camera's fixed and on its way back ahead of schedule and time to go and welcome back the 17 year old round the world sailor returning today. Now that is an achievement! Have a good life! Dubois Good! Let's take it as settled then. I hope you have a (spare) cam to get pics of that sailor. I agree - quite an achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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