jaay Posted July 28, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I bought a brand new 50 lux from a UK dealer and didn't use it for a few weeks after purchasing as was busy and was waiting for my UV/IR filter. When I got around to mounting it I noticed something very strange on the rear element of the lens - all the brass which is normally shiny and smooth was rough and looked corroded. I returned it to my dealer who was equally shocked at it's appearance (they thought something had sheared off!). They said it had to go back to Leica to be repaired or replaced. They didn't offer to swop the lens with another one they had. 3 weeks has past and I've heard nothing so I call Leica and someone hunts down my lens which has yet to be looked at in the 3 weeks it's been sitting there and said he had to investigate. They got back to me saying that it is an odd issue and not one they've seen before - there is nothing 'wrong' with it, just the brass has got funny colouring and patches it in. As a result Leica will not replace the brass nor swop the lens as they don't have any in stock. They now say it was up to my dealer to swop it if I wasn't happy and shouldn't have sent it to them. So now I'm stuck - neither the dealer or Leica themselves want to take responsibility for it when all I want is another new one - I presume this is because no one wants to get stuck with the odd one as if you saw it you wouldn't buy it and it's second hand value would drop. Any advice? I now have no lens and am not exactly being looked after well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Hi jaay, Take a look here Anyone who has returned a lens please offer any advice!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 28, 2009 Hang on - you seem to imply that the lens functions perfectly and that your main problem is the appearance of the brass? Do you have an image to show us? And yes- Leica is right. Your dealer is the one who has to handle it and communicate, if neccesary battle, with Leica for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 28, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 28, 2009 You might find more exposure & feedback on this in the customer forum. I'd make sure that you get Leica to document their decision in case this gets nasty and you need to force the dealer to take back the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 28, 2009 UK consumer law will apply - your contract is with the dealer so you should insist on a replacement or refund from them. If they refuse you will have to issue a court summons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 28, 2009 Btw, three weeks if the lens is sent by a dealer from the UK does not sound excessive. What happens is that dealers tend to batch their repairs when sending to Leica UK (although many will deny it ), that is one week gone, and Leica UK batches their repairs for Solms and that is another week gone. So with transit times, paperwork, etc, three weeks may well have passed until a technician gets to look at the lens. Then the aim is to get the lens turned around in Solms within five days (which does not always work ) and it has to go through the whole rignarole coming back again. I doubt there would be a winnable court case if the only thing that is wrong is the appearance of the brass, which seems to have corroded somehow, and the lens functions within specifications. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaay Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks for the quick replies. I contacted Leica myself out of despair as the dealer was not providing me with any information at all, and had I not I don't know how much longer it may have just sat there waiting to be looked at. I will try with the dealer again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 28, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the quality of the item is not as it should be you certainly do have redress - you could buy a new car, lets say when its delivered to you the paintwork is really bad, the car will still work fine but you wouldn't be happy would you?! Couple of other points to consider. Did you pay by credit card? If so you can claim the money back from your card company, make it their responsibility. Did you by via mail order? you have additional protection if so. Doesn't Leica's passport cover everything, even accidental damage? I'm surprised they admit the metal is 'corroded' but won't replace it. Anyway I'd only be satisfied with a new replacement as it shouldn't be corroded in the first place. Don't let them fob you off. If you took the same lens back to the dealer as a trade in I bet they'd offer a lower price for the 'damage'. http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-do-you-measure-quality/http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-do-you-measure-quality/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 28, 2009 Don't get me wrong, James. I would create stink as well in a case like this - two weeks dead fish ain't in it But the part is a functional part - not a cosmetic one, so I doubt that it would be enforcable in court. The next question would be: how did the corrosion occur and where? Who is responsible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 28, 2009 If it is different, abnormal, even if it is only cosmetic, tell them to wake up to themselves and replace it. It is either right or it isnt. Additionally, if you ever want to off load it how many people will want it without being offered substantial discount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaay Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted July 28, 2009 It is only cosmetic and does not affect the use of the lens. It is an abnormality in the brass that has been used. The key issue is if I ever tried to sell it I would lose a good percentage because of the 'cosmetic' fault. I believe this is precisely why neither the dealer nor Leica want it back as they would have to discount it to sell it again even though it's new and as yet unused. I contacted the credit card company and they said I may be able to open a dispute but since it's been more than 30 days already they can't gaurantee anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 28, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 28, 2009 Also consider, if it is corrosion, what caused it and has it affected other internal parts beyond your vision? Definitely firm contact with th dealer to support you is called for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 28, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 28, 2009 I learned to my cost a couple of years ago, that it is essential to test new equipment as soon as you get it. I had a fault with a lens that I didn't realise until a couple of weeks after I received it, and the dealer denied all responsibility. If the goods are not of merchantable quality, the dealer has to sort it out for you. It's not the manufacturer's responsibility, as you have no contract with them, only with the dealer. Speak with your local Citizen's Advice Bureau Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 28, 2009 One other thing: the "shiny bright" on the helix is only old lenses that have been used extensively. New lenses all have a machined look. This is my new Summilux 50 asph: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 28, 2009 Jaay, do you have a picture of the blemish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaay Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted July 28, 2009 I should gave taken a photo before letting them send the lens off. Leica UK Contacted me just now to say that Solms has told them how to 'fix' the brass. What they at first thought was anomolies in the brass is in fact a lubricant that hasn't been finished off properly. So now the brass is going to be removed and 'cleaned' with a special chemical - replicating a step it missed in the factory. We'll see if this makes a difference... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 28, 2009 It makes one think that a dealer assumes an excess of lubricant is a broken-off piece of metal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 29, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 29, 2009 I bought a Zeiss 18mm Distagon from Leicashop (= Westlicht) in Vienna. The focus was badly off, something like one meter at five. I wrote a polite email to Leicashop, telling about my testing. They mailed back, somewhat flabbergasted: They had another Distagon, and it had the same problem! Please would I return the lens, so they could fix it. I did, and the two lenses seem to have gone back to Oberkochen, and just a couple of weeks later I had a Distagon that focused correctly. What excuses Zeiss offered Leicashop, I do not know. But I think that Leicashop were polite, and that Mr. Carl Zeiss was polite too. Zeiss, as much as Leica, has a reputation that is one of the company's most valuable assets, and they know it. So, test carefully, be specific (a couple of appended pictures won't hurt) and above all, be polite. If your counterpart is a serious business enterprise, they will do their part. My trust in both Leicashop and Zeiss remains, and I have continued to deal with both of them (Zeiss have a net shop too). Good for them. Good for me. And, I suspect, good for Cosina too, in the long run. They know by now that they have to tighten up their quality control, and I did recently buy a Pancake II 35mm Color Skopar which has been to my complete satisfaction. Excellent little lens. The old man from the Age of the Corner Camera Shop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaay Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 29, 2009 I thought that all of you who kindly took time to offer advice would appreciate knowing how the matter concluded: I got the lens back today and after chemicals have been applied to the brass it now looks the same as jaapv's lux. Leica UK ended up dealing with me directly and phoned me several times to discuss the issue after they were told what to do my Solms. So now all is fine, but the lesson for me is not to trust the dealer to chase anything up but to give Leica a call yourself to spur them on - even if really your not supposed to. They admitted that some dealers are less than enthusiastic in communicating about items sent back to them so in this case they were happiest to talk to me directly. I feel had I not chased it up the lens would still be sitting at Leica UK unopened and a long time would have passed before the dealer would have thought to look into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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