SJP Posted July 28, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the M8 acted like a regular USB memory stick (removable disk) I would only remove the baseplate to replace the batteries. I have never had anything fail because it was attached to my computer via a USB cable. My organiser is also charged via the USB which works fine. M8 could also be charged via the USB in principle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Hi SJP, Take a look here If that rumoured M9 finally arrives.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanJW Posted July 28, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 28, 2009 My Macbook (early 2009) has only USB ports. There are LOTS of computers out there (most PC's) with no firewire but almost none without USB, so in terms of connectivity for the most users, USB (whether USB2 or USB3) is the way to go. I have used the M8 USB port just once, but it was to offload photos from a SD card when I was traveling and had no reader with me. It was slow but it worked. If the camera had a firewire port, I could not have done this, as my computer at the time was a Thinkpad that had USB only. I think this little port is an interesting if not strange thing to focus on regarding a hypothetical M9. I would think if Leica offers a M9 with FF and other desired features (as already discussed in numerous threads) the absence or presence of the port will be irrelevant. However, (i) I doubt it will be omitted; (ii) I doubt we will see firewire; (iii) given Leica's conservative approach, I doubt we will see USB3 either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 28, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 28, 2009 I think the main benefit of continuing to have a port is the ability to shoot tethered. Sadly Leica never got their act together and updated the Mac software to Leopard (in spite of promises to do so), let along Snow Leopard due in 6 weeks time. Just the ability to do time lapse would make tethered worth it. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share #24 Posted July 28, 2009 Diogenis, You are missing or ignoring the fact that many users don't want to attach their camera to a computer. Not because the connection is too slow, but because they are concerned about causing a problem in the camera's firmware. I wouldn't use FW 800 or USB 3, however fast they might be. Steve It's more likely that you get hit by a meteor from outer space than this happening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted July 28, 2009 Leica should get on their feet and upgrade the useless (as is now) port and software. Our best chances is if they finally offer us a FW800 port for such an expensive flagship camera. Those that are pros enough will have the relevant equipment to use a FW800. Obviously people that just go for shopping looking for the cheapest PCs as the M$ commercial shows us, will hardly get their hands on a FW. But I hardly doubt these shoot with an M8 either... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted July 28, 2009 Share #26 Posted July 28, 2009 I have never used the USB port. I think they should just get rid of it - it's just another point for water ingress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 28, 2009 Share #27 Posted July 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica should get on their feet and upgrade the useless (as is now) port and software. Our best chances is if they finally offer us a FW800 port for such an expensive flagship camera. Those that are pros enough will have the relevant equipment to use a FW800. Obviously people that just go for shopping looking for the cheapest PCs as the M$ commercial shows us, will hardly get their hands on a FW. But I hardly doubt these shoot with an M8 either... Well, I have FW800, but I'm not clear what I'd use the port for? Why do you want it? Isn't it easier to use a very fast card reader and high capacity/speed SD cards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 28, 2009 Share #28 Posted July 28, 2009 Well, I have FW800, but I'm not clear what I'd use the port for? Why do you want it? Isn't it easier to use a very fast card reader and high capacity/speed SD cards. True. The last time I rebuilt my desktop from the ground up I realized that I didn't need to be hanging onto that floppy disk drive any more. So I got an ExpressCard adapter to install in that slot and use the same CF and SD card readers I use in my laptop. I can't figure out why I'd want to hook up my M8 to my computer. Even then Leica would be just plain daft if they replaced the USB with a FireWire port. I guess there may be some FW on the back of this thing, but I'm not going to get out of the chair now to walk around back to see for sure. (I used to have FW800 and 400 ports on back side of the previous iteration of the desktop, but never figured out a reason to use them. Now, between USB and eSATA, I'm pretty well covered.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 28, 2009 Share #29 Posted July 28, 2009 Now if the M8 USB port acted as a battery charging point (even trickle) rather than just data transfer then I'd probably use it. I'd rather it sat under the baseplate though as opposed to hiding behind a plastic door that's destined to sheer off at some point in it's life. An alternative of a rubber door would be much better than the current arrangement. My $0.02 ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmk60 Posted July 29, 2009 Share #30 Posted July 29, 2009 I know that FW400 and USB2 are supposed to be similar speeds but that does not seem to be the case in real life. I have two back up drives which have both FW(400) and USB2. When I want to do a large data transfer, I would guess that FW400 runs at about 2 to 3 times the speed of USB2. When I recently changed my Macbook 13" to a Macbook Pro 13", I did not have an FW800 to FW400 lead, so after doing my migrate to the MBP, I started to run my first back up via a USB2 cable to a Freecom Datatank. It was so slow, I went out and bought an FW800 to FW400 lead and thereafter the back up zipped along. That said, I am still perfectly happy taking out an SD card and loading direct, especially now I have an SD reader in the MBP. I now keep a full operating system on a cheap class 4 16MB (€19 from Amazon) SD card, so if I need to do a HD repair or have a problem, I can start my MBP from an SD card. Wilson WIlson - I downloaded 50ish DNG files onto my MBP via a USB card reader first time and confirm that what you said is true, It was incredibly slower than the express card which is very similar to USB2 in speed (450 Vs. 400, I guess). The difference was day and night (1min Vs. 10min!). m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted July 29, 2009 Share #31 Posted July 29, 2009 Well if we are talking USB3 then how about FW16 & 32, there on there way too. For me the lack of external power. Using battery to run the USB is a pain and reduces performance. Good thing my MacBook has a SD slot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryink Posted July 29, 2009 Share #32 Posted July 29, 2009 OK here we go again. This is about a camera that doesnt exist nor is there even a frickin prototype that exists. This bears 0 relationship to the m8 and yet remains. Now I post something specifically about puts that speak about the m8 and film and someone once again randomly and without any logical reason, moves it into the hinterlands of this L. camera forum. This is begining to get very very frustrating. There is crap about which bag for an m8 when it would obviously fit any m camera and this remains. Come on moderators try and use some sort of consistency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted July 29, 2009 WIlson - I downloaded 50ish DNG files onto my MBP via a USB card reader first time and confirm that what you said is true, It was incredibly slower than the express card which is very similar to USB2 in speed (450 Vs. 400, I guess). The difference was day and night (1min Vs. 10min!). m You guys should check carefully what reader you got. Not all readers support usb2, and those that do, not necessarily have the available bandwidth. Here is another proof of the superiority of FW SanDisk | Products | Accessories | SanDisk Extreme® Readers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefe Posted July 29, 2009 Share #34 Posted July 29, 2009 Leica should get on their feet and upgrade the useless (as is now) port and software. Our best chances is if they finally offer us a FW800 port for such an expensive flagship camera. Those that are pros enough will have the relevant equipment to use a FW800. Obviously people that just go for shopping looking for the cheapest PCs as the M$ commercial shows us, will hardly get their hands on a FW. But I hardly doubt these shoot with an M8 either... How many desktops/laptops are compatible with USB ? How many are compatible with firewire ? They can't drop the de-facto standard for the rare-but-superior technology. They could add it on the side to please people like you. Don't you think they would be taking a risk by dropping the most common way of connecting a camera to the PC ? And in the end, how fast is your SD card ? High end cards are rarely capable of exceeding 25MB/s of read speed which is way below what USB2 is capable (40MB/s for mass storage devices). No need for firewire 2 or 3, you just need a proper implementation of usb2 plus the camera behaving like an external hard drive and you'll have all the bandwidth your SD card is capable of. You can already get that bandwidth by removing the bottom plate and putting the SD card in a reader. I do it, but I admit that it is annoying to remove the leather case each time and wouldn't mind connecting it to the PC via a cable if it wasn't horribly slow and drawing battery power badly. They just need a good USB2, firewire not (I have never connected a firewire to a computer and never needed to and don't see why I should ever). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #35 Posted July 29, 2009 How many desktops/laptops are compatible with USB ? How many are compatible with firewire ? They can't drop the de-facto standard for the rare-but-superior technology. They could add it on the side to please people like you. Don't you think they would be taking a risk by dropping the most common way of connecting a camera to the PC ? fefe, this contradicts with the whole concept of the m8. The whole idea lying behind this rare camera. I don't give a shit how many rubbish desktops/laptops are being made so that these fulfill the needs for a delusional "market research" one does before purchasing... I want that port to fully work as intended, because and let's not kid ourselves, none uses this little port. One could have fill it with wax and seal it. It is there for a reason. Fix it and then we will see if people still use an external card reader Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #36 Posted July 29, 2009 Well, I have FW800, but I'm not clear what I'd use the port for? Why do you want it? Isn't it easier to use a very fast card reader and high capacity/speed SD cards. you can add an external fw disk and boot from it, you can use it to network 2 machines with it you can charge a device with it plus, it is faster than usb, but more expensive example: https://iomega-eu-en.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/iomega_eu_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=19631 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted July 29, 2009 Share #37 Posted July 29, 2009 USB 3.0 is slated to start appearing in computers by the end of 2009. It supports transfers of up to 625MB/s (vs. 98.5MB/s for FireWire 800). I'd say 6x faster is pretty good. David There are also new FW on the way: FW3200 and FW6400. I use FW800 between my Mac and 1.5TB external HD and to my Sandisk CF card reader, which can be daisy chained. Way better than USB2. I have an older FW400 CF card reader which is now at work in case I want to upload there and for back-up. Got a bunch of SD readers too but not as fast. Too bad Leica did not chose to use CF cards in the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 29, 2009 Share #38 Posted July 29, 2009 OK here we go again. This is about a camera that doesnt exist nor is there even a frickin prototype that exists. This bears 0 relationship to the m8 and yet remains. Now I post something specifically about puts that speak about the m8 and film and someone once again randomly and without any logical reason, moves it into the hinterlands of this L. camera forum. This is begining to get very very frustrating. There is crap about which bag for an m8 when it would obviously fit any m camera and this remains. Come on moderators try and use some sort of consistency. I was not the Mod that moved your post about Mr Puts. However, the moving of the post the the Customer Forum (hardly a "hinterland" - not that there are any "hinterlands") is appropriate, because the Puts article (to which you do not link for ease of reference, btw) is relevant to both film and digital photographers. As for a bag which fits an M8, I would agree with you, but that's been here a while now. We do try to be consistent in managing the forum sub-sections, but we are only human, after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted July 29, 2009 Share #39 Posted July 29, 2009 Just to clear up some confusion, Apple DID drop firewire on their macbooks in the previous batch of laptops. You had to get a macbook pro to get firewire. However, I'm guessing due to customer concerns, they added it back in the latest revision of laptops. So I think only the Macbook Air doesn't have firewire? Most of their computers only have FW800 now, though it's simply a matter of having the right cable to use with FW400 devices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefe Posted July 29, 2009 Share #40 Posted July 29, 2009 fefe, this contradicts with the whole concept of the m8. The whole idea lying behind this rare camera. I don't give a shit how many rubbish desktops/laptops are being made so that these fulfill the needs for a delusional "market research" one does before purchasing... I want that port to fully work as intended, because and let's not kid ourselves, none uses this little port. One could have fill it with wax and seal it. It is there for a reason. Fix it and then we will see if people still use an external card reader I like your concept of rubbish = no firewire . You need a high bandwidth link when you are accessing a high speed device, but not when you are accessing a SD card, even the latest and greatest. It won't change anything to have a firewire port as long as the USB port is properly designed (which, we are in agreement, is not the case on the current M8). What is the idea lying behind the M8 ? Are you suggesting an exclusive camera for the rich or tech savvy ? If the external connection was wireless (802.11n), assuming reasonable proximity with the wireless router (following the same line of thinking, anyone without a 802.11n router has a rubbish network ) you could reach peak throughput on most of SD cards without the need for plugging a cable. It would require them to design it in a way where the shell of the camera doesn't shield the signal, but that would be way superior to any form of cable connection and remove that ugly plastic filled port from my beautiful camera. I'd take that over esata, usb3, firewire800 or faster any day, even if it was a bit slower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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