noah_addis Posted July 26, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you have a DSLR that makes bad mid-day light look good in photos, I'd like to know about it so I can get one! Seriously, I find the M8 can handle contrasty and harsh mid-day light as well as any camera I've used as long as you shoot DNG and process the files correctly. Other cameras might add some warmth or have less contrast out of the camera but the M8 raw files can be processed that way too if you desire. But, having said that, I only shoot under such conditions when it's absolutely necessary. Many pros shoot when the light is nice in the early and late hours of the day (or on overcast days) and grab a coffee or pint during the mid-day hours of bad light. When I travel working on a photo project I try to shoot outdoors when the light is good then spend the bad-light time either making contacts, doing research, traveling around or shooting indoors. If you must shoot in harsh mid-day light, it's all about the direction of the light and finding good angles. For instance, if you can shoot down on your subject the light might look better. Or if you're shooting people, wait until they look up towards the sun and the light will be better on their faces. Also, you can look for shady areas to shoot in or, as I suggested, shoot indoors. It may help to avoid close-ups of faces during these hours, instead focusing on wide views where poor light on faces won't show up as much. Also in bright sun it's important not to overexpose since blown highlights can be impossible to recover. I tend to go a bit under since the M8 has great shadow detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Hi noah_addis, Take a look here The M8 and 'nice' light. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Iansky Posted July 26, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 26, 2009 I have the M8 and 35 summarit and feel that my M8 is much more 'nice' light reliant than my slr camera.In 'boring' light, my slr really outperforms the M8. In 'nice' light my M8 really outperforms my slr. My mind too's and fro's between keeping and selling the M8 because of this situation. I know that if i take my M8 to Bath with me today i will probably get some shots because this camera is so discreet but they will be flat and boring. Later this evening i may be able to catch some 'Leica' moments, but only if the light is right. My technique aside (i use DNG and try really hard!), could this relance on 'nice' light be due to the lens? Frustrated ''photographer'' on a sunny day! I am not sure what you classify as "boring light" - perhaps what we had today, flat lighting with rain? Cameras are tools and it is up to the user to get the best out of it, understanding lighting is critical to good photography. I recently traded in all my full frame DSLR kit due to size and weight and got the M8 - I already had 3 M lenses (non Asp) that I use and love and find they are far better than My "L" glass used with my late DSLR. I was out today with my M8 and took a few images, the 2 below were taken in flat lighting with a fine drizzling rain - personally, I think they have come out well and produced images I am happy with> Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91620-the-m8-and-nice-light/?do=findComment&comment=973576'>More sharing options...
offshore Posted July 26, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 26, 2009 Personally I love bad ass broad daylight with the sun straight overhead and the brighter the better. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91620-the-m8-and-nice-light/?do=findComment&comment=973581'>More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 26, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 26, 2009 I note earlier that you don't have a hood for your lens - in bright sunlight this can improve contrast and overall image quality significantly and might be another contributor to your harsh light performance. I'd also second the exposure settings - I'll dial in -1/3 or even -2/3 stop base compensation in bright conditions to control blowing out the highlights and the harsher effects of specular light too. Here's the irony for me - I find my Leica shots much more pleasing from bright daylight shots than those I take with other cameras. It might be a subject thing (urban/people/road trivia) or a lens rendering thing but I do find that I get images that pop with less post processing under these circumstances. I also remember: Harsh light, think black & white ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted July 26, 2009 Thankyou very much! Noah, i noticed your work some time ago, your pictures are everything i love about photography i feel excited looking at it as i did last week when i read Annie Liebovits' book 'At work". I read for hours into the night feeling so happy and excited by her work and the potential of photography. Lansky, that's the 'nice' light i meant, as your cars show, it gives a clarity. Offshore, your badass light picture is obviously taken by a pro, i have a way to go! Gwelland, thanks for that, i'm going to look again.This thread has really made me think about Light. Lucy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted July 27, 2009 Share #26 Posted July 27, 2009 One of the advantages of digital imaging over film, whether with the M8 or another camera is that with a bit of post processing one can turn boring flat light into something far more appealing. I think you just need to play around a bit more with Photoshop and perhaps some plug-ins like Topaz Adjust or some Nik softwares. Get rid of the M8, and I can almost guarantee you will regret it in short order. I think that is one of the disadvantages, it is teaching people how to become not better photographers, but better graphic artists. Ketchup does not a good hamburger make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 27, 2009 Share #27 Posted July 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have the M8 and 35 summarit and feel that my M8 is much more 'nice' light reliant than my slr camera.In 'boring' light, my slr really outperforms the M8. In 'nice' light my M8 really outperforms my slr. My mind too's and fro's between keeping and selling the M8 because of this situation. I know that if i take my M8 to Bath with me today i will probably get some shots because this camera is so discreet but they will be flat and boring. Later this evening i may be able to catch some 'Leica' moments, but only if the light is right. My technique aside (i use DNG and try really hard!), could this relance on 'nice' light be due to the lens? Frustrated ''photographer'' on a sunny day! shootinglulu, I think your problem has more to do with subject choice on a dull day than the lens you choose. You can perk up dull day scenics by excluding sky. But my approach on dull days, given little choice in a less frequented location, is to concentrate on medium to close subjects. Indeed, soft lighting is ideal in these conditions. You capture raw, therefore you can tweak the results, if desired, to make the colours and contrast more lively. In moderation, of course. I know there is no substitute for 'nice' or ideal lighting, but I doubt that a choice of camera system makes much difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted July 27, 2009 Share #28 Posted July 27, 2009 I think that is one of the disadvantages, it is teaching people how to become not better photographers, but better graphic artists. Ketchup does not a good hamburger make. That's easy to say, but not very practical. I'd never shoot in anything BUT great light if I could, but sometimes one doesn't have that choice. Last week one of my clients called me about shooting three people outdoors during a lunch break, from 11:30 to 12. What should I have done--told the client to have them all come back a 7 pm when the light was more to my liking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 27, 2009 Share #29 Posted July 27, 2009 I think that is one of the disadvantages, it is teaching people how to become not better photographers, but better graphic artists. Ketchup does not a good hamburger make. Ever tried eating a hamburger without ketchup? Actually I haven't either, but I don't fancy it. The reality is that digital imaging is teaching people to be different photographers with which I don't have a problem. As for being 'better graphic artists', I equate that aspect to the equivalent of the analog darkroom technician. To qualify my position on this I still maintain fully functional B&W AND colour darkrooms alongside my 'digital darkroom, so I have feet in both camps. KM-25, I admire your tenacity and ability with Kodachrome in particular, a medium that I never liked, but that is purely a personal failing. I think we should always appreciate different media, different methods and different opinions, none of which are superior to another, except some are better suited to different purposes. Just a comment from the old man with a foot in both camps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted July 29, 2009 Share #30 Posted July 29, 2009 Lucy, in harsh middy light, try to shoot subjects in the shade. Get that lens hood! Have you tried using a polarising filter? It sounds like you don't enjoy post-processing. Who does? Consider shooting BW jpgs alongside your DNG files. Set the contrast to low or use a low-contrast lens. Maybe also use a red or orange filter if you really start to enjoy the liberation BW jpgs give you. One notable advantage of the M8 in those ugly conditions is that it can shoot infrared photography handheld - that's certainly one way to still take photos during that harsh hot midday light! Look into the B+W 093 filter if this is of interest to you - costs about £30. I wish you all the best. I think the M8 is a really super camera, and I hope you find your workflow/style with it. Skipping from one camera system to another will be costly at each transition, and won't necessarily get you anywhere quickly. The best camera is ALWAYS the one you have with you, provided it gives you enough control over output to get what you want/need. With this in mind, the M8 is top-quality imagery in a small package. Please don't sell it:o Stu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #31 Posted July 29, 2009 That was nice to read, and helpful. Actually i haven't tried the b+w mode with the M8. Could you tell me what the benefit of this is, over altering to b+w in pp? Thankyou Lucy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted July 29, 2009 Share #32 Posted July 29, 2009 Hallo. Thankyou all for your replies, as usual the help is really constructive and positive for me. I'm sorry i wasn't clear about what 'nice' and 'boring' light means to me. Boring is usually when the sun is high bright and a bit brash it seems to flatten things and my feelings were that my Leica performed less well than my slr in these conditions.'Nice' light is anything interesting, early and late light and i remember best of all with my old film camera, overcast grey winter days. I would push the Ilford to 3200 and take some wonderful contrasty grainy shots of the chidren on long walks. The point about treating the camera as if it were film is good, i think i composed more thoughtfully with film, and enjoyed the successes while being more accepting of the failures. There are people, very close to me who would be appalled if they knew the value of the M8 and i have been more negative about my failures than i would have been with the old film cam! With the Leica and my hurdles, i always want to be proven wrong. Rather than looking for excuses to get rid of the M8 it's quite the reverse. There is something so wonderful at times about this camera and i feel rather inept when i look at other M8 work and doubt my abilities. But anyway, since i wrote yesterday i have made the firm decision to keep the M8 and freeing up a lot.. I didn't take any camera to Bath yesterday and only missed the M8. I take the point about pp and the hood which i don't have. I only use LR and praps other pp tools would be good with that. Thanks very much Lucy Now that I've read your latest reply, I think I get what you're saying. I used to have a Canon Eos 1Ds, but got rid of it when I went the M8 route in 12/06. In bright flat mid-day light especially, I find that the M8's meter leads one to overexpose images. So I always set the meter -2/3's of a stop lower and underexpose by that amount. Combined with basic post-processing, I think you'd see a major improvement. Overall, in my experience, the .DNG files coming straight off my SD cards from my M8 are quite superior to the what I saw from my 1Ds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 29, 2009 Share #33 Posted July 29, 2009 What should I have done--told the client to have them all come back a 7 pm when the light was more to my liking? Why not? Have you never tried to persuade your clients to do things your way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #34 Posted July 29, 2009 Hallo. I've been shooting intentionally in harsher light to see if i can make something of a shot. I've found that underexposing quite a bit helps. Slowly i'm producing just a few acceptable shots, generally and actually quite enjoying the challenge, at times! Thankyou Lucy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted July 30, 2009 Share #35 Posted July 30, 2009 Boring is usually when the sun is high bright and a bit brash it seems to flatten things and my feelings were that my Leica performed less well than my slr in these conditions.'Nice' light is anything interesting, early and late light and i remember best of all with my old film camera, overcast grey winter days. I would push the Ilford to 3200 and take some wonderful contrasty grainy shots of the chidren on long walks. Lucy, IMO light is never too much Boring or too much Nice, it really depends on the picture I want to take. I remember taking beautiful pictures with my M8 in light that you call Boring and insipid pictures in what you call Nice light. I think that the M8 has the ability to shoot in any kind of light and that maybe I'm not as good as photographer to get the best from it in any condition. Any time I get a bad or wrong picture I tell myself I still have a lot to learn on this camera and on how to better use it. This slowly comes from practice and of course from being a member of this forum an looking at what other do and suggest. In short, I would not give up if I were you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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