Clook Posted July 18, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Julian, to complicate matters further, from what you've said you have probably contaminated the 724 brush with the oil from the sensor the first time you attempted to clean it. You're going to have to clean the brush before you use it again or you'll brush oil smears back onto the sensor as you try to lift any dust. The Arctic Butterfly people also sell a brush cleaning fluid which you use along with distilled water to get the brush back in shape...then you can start all over again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Hi Clook, Take a look here Arctic butterfly help - I don't seem to be getting a lot of success!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SJP Posted July 18, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 18, 2009 Sounds sensible - where would one be able to get those things from?Mmmm not so easy to answer that one. In NL I would try the pharmacist (apotheek) or dispensing chemist (drogist), but I get it at the unversity from the chemistry lab for free so I do not have any first hand experience with other routes. Some google yielded these two: Isopropyl Alcohol / Rubbing Alcohol - 70% & 99% - Wholesale to Public $AVE Isopropanol Search Results Isopropanol - Cole-Parmer Catalog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 18, 2009 Julian, to complicate matters further, from what you've said you have probably contaminated the 724 brush with the oil from the sensor the first time you attempted to clean it. You're going to have to clean the brush before you use it again or you'll brush oil smears back onto the sensor as you try to lift any dust. The Arctic Butterfly people also sell a brush cleaning fluid which you use along with distilled water to get the brush back in shape...then you can start all over again! Unless they have changed (and I hope they have) the cleaning stuff for Arctic Butterflies comes as tablets. These have to be dissolved in distilled water, which they are quite reluctant to do. I have heard that they are basically the same as denture cleaning tablets but with a very large added ingredient - profit margin. Half a tablet in half the quantity of water works just as well. Like all Visible Dust products, the tablets are very expensive. You have to wash in pure distilled water afterwards. For wet cleaning, I bought some Visible Dust fluid when I could not get Eclipse E2 and US airport security had emptied an unopened E2 50ml bottle. Firstly the Visible Dust Sensor Cleaner did not work anything like as well as E2 and per ml, it was approximately 10 times the price of E2. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 18, 2009 Mmmm not so easy to answer that one. In NL I would try the pharmacist (apotheek) or dispensing chemist (drogist), but I get it at the unversity from the chemistry lab for free so I do not have any first hand experience with other routes. Some google yielded these two: Isopropyl Alcohol / Rubbing Alcohol - 70% & 99% - Wholesale to Public $AVE Isopropanol Search Results Isopropanol - Cole-Parmer Catalog Be very careful buying IPA. Some of it comes with stuff (Bitrex) in it to make it very unpleasant to drink, as it does not do you any good at all if you substitute the gin in your G&T with it. Once the IPA has evaporated, it will leave hard to remove smears of Bitrex on your sensor. If you buy it from electronic suppliers, for use for cleaning PC boards, it will not have this in it, as the Bitrex would in due course, corrode the PC board or components. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 18, 2009 Share #25 Posted July 18, 2009 Mmmm not so easy to answer that one. In NL I would try the pharmacist (apotheek) or dispensing chemist (drogist), but I get it at the unversity from the chemistry lab for free so I do not have any first hand experience with other routes. Some google yielded these two: Isopropyl Alcohol / Rubbing Alcohol - 70% & 99% - Wholesale to Public $AVE Isopropanol Search Results Isopropanol - Cole-Parmer Catalog Not to put too fine a point on it...But the OP clearly has little experience and little or no training related to this kind of activity. He originally assumed that the sensor was covered with plain glass, and found one of the manufacturer's sites confusing. You recommend he just go buy some alcohol and swabs. Are you willing to cover any damage if he makes a mistake? Folks can fuss and fume about the high costs of the swabs and solutions when they are looking to clean the sensor in their $5,000 camera. But sometimes the packaged route may be the way to go. As Click and Clack say, "It's the cheap man who spends the most" (or something like that.) We shouldn't confuse price with value. Consider this from one manufacturer: CCD Sensor Guarantee :Photographic Solutions, Inc. guarantees that it's Sensor Swab, BrushOff, Eclipse or E2 products will cause no damage to the CCD or CMOS sensor when used in accordance with the instructions provided by the camera manufacturer and/or Photographic Solutions website (PS). If it is determined that these products caused physical damage to the sensor, PS will reimburse the camera owner for the full cost of repairs upon presentation to PS of proof of purchase, camera manufacturer's repair invoice and the damaged sensor. This warranty applies to all cameras and in any country. 'Nuff said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2009 Share #26 Posted July 18, 2009 Be very careful buying IPA. Some of it comes with stuff (Bitrex) in it to make it very unpleasant to drink, as it does not do you any good at all if you substitute the gin in your G&T with it. Once the IPA has evaporated, it will leave hard to remove smears of Bitrex on your sensor. If you buy it from electronic suppliers, for use for cleaning PC boards, it will not have this in it, as the Bitrex would in due course, corrode the PC board or components. Wilson In our country alcohol is denaturated with an oily substance, usually Bergamot oil. It will smear your sensor. If you insist on going that route buy medicinal grade Isopropyl alcohol. It is not cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 18, 2009 Share #27 Posted July 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I could not agree more. I tried arctic Butterfly, which is highly touted, but quickly abandoned it in favor of Eclipse and swabs, which are easy and very effective. I found the Butterfly smeared. I tried on on my M8 and on my 5D. Same problem, and once it smears it means the strabnds on the butterly are contaminated and you need to clean them (wet I suppose, though I've not done it). The only problem with swabs and Eclipse is that you can't travel (fly) with them as Eclipse I believe is a no no for both checked and carry on. When I travel I carry a rocket blower and live with that. I think you can buy sealed swabs pre-soaked with Eclipse which might solve the flying problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #28 Posted July 18, 2009 I think you can buy sealed swabs pre-soaked with Eclipse which might solve the flying problem. Having been caught once with E2 in hold luggage, I now put it in a different bottle. I don't know why E2 is targeted as perfume and eau de cologne also contains IPA. Still I suppose expecting a government agency to be logical is "not logical". Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 18, 2009 Share #29 Posted July 18, 2009 Thanks jaap! Sorry to be a pain - I have just looked at a website selling Visible Dust products and I'm totally overwhelmed - there are dozens of products. Even the 1.3 swabs seem to come in different 'colour' ratings? Also - there are different fluids? Do they do a kit I can buy that will be suitable or could you help me out with exactly what to order? Here is the site I was referring to the #1 - 20mm wide swab: Sensor Swabs and Sensor Swab Plus with Eclipse or Eclipse 2 the best sensor cleaning solution They also have this resource pare: Cleaning Digital Cameras - Photographic Solutions, Inc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share #30 Posted July 18, 2009 ljc - I understand and will heed your advice but please go easy on SJP - he was furthering my questions and if I chose to have a go with non-photographic branded stuff and cocked it up it'd be nobody's fault but my own ! Thanks for all the advice - it's a bit of a mindfield isn't it - shame Leica don't sell an approved and recommended kit to save all the messing about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #31 Posted July 18, 2009 ljc - I understand and will heed your advice but please go easy on SJP - he was furthering my questions and if I chose to have a go with non-photographic branded stuff and cocked it up it'd be nobody's fault but my own ! Thanks for all the advice - it's a bit of a mindfield isn't it - shame Leica don't sell an approved and recommended kit to save all the messing about! Julian, If you have a helpful (preferably Leica) camera shop or repairer near you, my recommendation would be to get them to demonstrate wet cleaning on your M8 for you. If you buy the swabs and fluid from them, they should do it for free. Watch how much pressure they put on the swab by judging the extent to which the swab bends and look at the action and angle as well. Cameraclean UK also have a good video on their website. If you press it too lightly, it just will not get grease spots off. If you press too hard - goodbye sensor, so err on the too light side. It all seems a bit alarming but once you have seen someone do it, it is less worrying. We teach it on day one of our photo courses. I would guess that 75% plus of our students have never cleaned their sensor. They are a bit taken aback when we show them how dirty their sensors are. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 18, 2009 Share #32 Posted July 18, 2009 Having been caught once with E2 in hold luggage, I now put it in a different bottle. I don't know why E2 is targeted as perfume and eau de cologne also contains IPA. Still I suppose expecting a government agency to be logical is "not logical". Wilson I understand the reason that Eclipse fluid is SPECIFICALLY banded on aircraft, either in the cabin or in checked luggage is that is extremely flammable. (or more likely upsets the TSA because it sets their bomb sensors off). They will remove it from your checked luggage if they find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #33 Posted July 18, 2009 I understand the reason that Eclipse fluid is SPECIFICALLY banded on aircraft, either in the cabin or in checked luggage is that is extremely flammable. (or more likely upsets the TSA because it sets their bomb sensors off). They will remove it from your checked luggage if they find it. More inflammable than Eau de Cologne or nail polish remover? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 18, 2009 Share #34 Posted July 18, 2009 More inflammable than Eau de Cologne or nail polish remover? Wilson Well no, probably not. But banned by name either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 18, 2009 Share #35 Posted July 18, 2009 There seems to be some confusion as to what is on top of the sensor assembly in the M8. The topmost layer is indeed glass – a BS-7 (Kyocera B-7) glass with a thickness of 0.5 mm. This borosilicate cover glass also does double duty as an IR-blocking filter. As thin sheets of glass go, this cover glass is quite durable, and its antireflective coating even improves on its durability. By the way, I can recommend the Pentax sensor cleaning kit – it doesn’t involve fluids, is more effective than a brush, and not overly expensive. I have used it on various brands of cameras with good success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share #36 Posted July 18, 2009 That's very interesting Michael - thanks. That might explain why my dealer just shrugged and said 'we use the corner of a cleaning cloth or anything we have to hand - no problem' - all very un-nasa like! I'm tempted to breath on it and use the corner of some bog roll just to prove or unprove the point that all this super-technicality could be marketing snake oil! :-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 18, 2009 Share #37 Posted July 18, 2009 That's very interesting Michael - thanks. That might explain why my dealer just shrugged and said 'we use the corner of a cleaning cloth or anything we have to hand - no problem' - all very un-nasa like! I'm tempted to breath on it and use the corner of some bog roll just to prove or unprove the point that all this super-technicality could be marketing snake oil! :-)) It would be a pity to makes matters worse! Although I do agree that it would have been more helpful if Leica had approved a DIY solution for its clients. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share #38 Posted July 18, 2009 I know - but WOULD it make matters worse - or is it just a bit of glass that needs a quick polish up? The suspense is killing me :-) Has anyone got an M8 there with a vertical line that's going back anyway that we can test because I've gone all shy!!! :-)) :-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 18, 2009 Share #39 Posted July 18, 2009 Julian, .... why not add to the gunk and rather than just blow on the sensor glass, stroke with a camera cloth and fumble around clumsily, I think you should add some Windex to add to the misery - it's just a bit of glass right? Blowing on the glass can(will) put moisture on the glass which will change any loose dust into stuck dust. Btw, your dealer sounds like an idiot. I guarantee that the approach of swiping the corner of a cloth on the sensor glass will add more dust and lint than clean it. Do yourself a favor and get a Sensor Loupe. Then you can see what you are dealing with. As mentioned earlier the following approach works with all classes of digital sensor: 1) Use a rocket blower to remove any loose dust - I hold the camera upside down when I do this. 2) Check the sensor and see if there's still dust. If so, retry (1) and if still there then use the arctic brush. Make sure you do a single wipe with the brush and then re-charge it. Don't wipe back & forth and avoid touching any other parts otherwise you'll get oils on the brush = smear. 3) Check again. If you're still seeing gunk then consider wet cleaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2009 Share #40 Posted July 18, 2009 What we need in digital cameras for the sensor is something similar to what BMW announced on 1 April 2002 - a wiper to keep the badge clean. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/90978-arctic-butterfly-help-i-dont-seem-to-be-getting-a-lot-of-success/?do=findComment&comment=966522'>More sharing options...
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