jpattison Posted July 17, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) > What is the problem with the 35mm focus shift...I do not understand? It seems that some of the 35 'lux ASPH lenses shift focus when stopped down between f2 and f5.6, that is when you focus and shoot at f1.4, then take the same shot at f2.8, the digital image shows the focus point has moved. This apparently affects black models only, and I believe black lenses from "early" batches are unaffected. I have an early one, but not an M8, so I cannot prove this. There is also a rumour that Leica are working on a new version of this lens, to counteract this problem. I'm sure there are owners here who can enlighten us further... John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Hi jpattison, Take a look here Leica M lens - current offering. What should I buy?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 17, 2009 Your theme would need volumes of answers and discussions... so I limit myself to some observations: - I doubt a pro would afford the 22 total lenses: Leica, for pros, is a tool for some SPECIFIC task (Zoomed DSLR are much better for a lot of tasks), and they typically tend to have a limited number of lenses whose behavior they know well, to take the best from them depending on the job; don't forget that a pro has to LIVE on his works... gear is an investiment that must have a return: try the sum of the 22 and evaluate the possible return . - To speak of "positioning strategy" for Leica is imho a sort of exaggeration : given that they are LINKED to a Viewfinder with frames, they are very limited in terms of "focals strategy" : they cannot make zooms, they cannot make "lateral"moves like, for instance a 40 or a 100: to me, their strategy is simply to offer a number of variants in term of max aperture around their historical focals, priced accordingly. In strong WAs (<24) they have made a significant move towards top luminosity with the Summiluxes, and towards extreme WA with WATE and 18 and we have read, in the forum, many voices about the fact that something more would be welcome (14-15) : I think that for something more we have to wait for the possible development of a 24x36 DRF. About teles, is clear that they think that M line is NOT targeted to tele users... I am one of the people who would appreciate a new goggled 135, but I think we are not so many to share this sentiment. - A Leica newcomer could indeed appreciate the "right" price of the Summarits (and me, not a newcomer, happily own a 75 of this breed), but I doubt that one would buy the complete series... I suspect that their initial marketing campaign on Summarits (2 or 3 together at reduced price) proved unsuccesful: a Summarit, for the newcomer, is "the lens to start"or (less probable) "the light set to start" (35+75 or 50+90): the appeal of the luminous lenses is strong when one start to appreciate the typical Leica photography (wide aperture, selective focus). I agree with most of you comments but would add that the best quality I am told is from a prime lens not a zoom. If you really need a 40mm or 100mm I would tend towards a 35mm and 90mm and then use Photoshop.....that would give the crop factor I am looking for with the proper depth of field also. My feeling is also that any serious Leica fan will want the high luminosity lenses and will be using available light (not flash). I could believe that some people who want a quality, compact camera kit for tourism will do well to buy the Summarit lenses that have excellent optics I am told and a little faster than the f2.8 of competition standard lenses but are not high luminosity types. ...as for the light set I would have thought one wants from my M6 days a 35mm and a 90mm or using a M8 the 35mm (ideally a 28mm) and a 75mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 17, 2009 For me the prime selection criterion would be a sensible coverage of focal lengths, for instance I find 35mm 'too close' to 28 and 50 mm, a few steps back or foreward will cover the range. So based on this I would propose (increments of about 2 and about 1.5): 1) 18, 28, 50, 90, 135 2) 15, 24, 35, 50, 75 (135) You do not need the whole collection. For me 15, 28, 50, 90, 135 would be the aim but I am not in a hurry. I could buy all 22 if I wanted to but the management (SWHTBO) would object. Moreover it does not make sense at all. In addition the older lenses are more than good enough compared to most other stuff. A 35mm summaron from 1960 or so blows 98% of present optics out of the sky in terms of "atmosphere" and "definition" (OK,OK whatever that may mean I am struggling for words here). That was the old stuff, new offerings from Leica are better technically but not necessarily artistically. If you have an "old" noctilux - keep it and make the most of it's unique character. > I guess the 15mm is the Voigtlander or Zeiss ...please let me know? > I am not sure about the 90mm as it is 135mm on a M8 and I have too many bad experiences with my 135mm (f4) Tele Elmar on a M6 trying to frame and focus this on a rangefinder. The 135mm on a M8 without the goggles accessory must be a nightmare isn't it? > I can relate to the 18mm and probably a 28mm a 50mm (Noctilux as a standard lens?) and a 75mm as being where I am headed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 17, 2009 Frank - you're not listening to me are you? You know you want all of them. Remember life's short. Go on - just do it. I think if I told my wife that I plan to buy all 22 Leica lenses in one go then life indeed would be short! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #25 Posted July 17, 2009 Understand what you mean, but I'm with Noah on this one: better to learn how to better use the lenses you have than buying new ones in the hope that they'll dramatically improve your photography. I'm one of those affected by GAS, and bought way too many lenses before I (only recently, alas...) realised that the "latest and greatest" provided only marginal technical improvement and that in some cases I got photos with more character from older glass. This may (or may not) change if and when a FF sensor is available and the technical limitations of some of the older glass become more exposed by the unforgiving digital technology. One of the things many of us here seem to like about the rangefinder experience is that it brings us back to the basics of photography - IMHO, this should apply to gear as well. Having said all that, the 21/1.4 is indeed a hell of a lens;) I agree about the older lenses giving great character, and have seen this repeatedly this week shooting many photos of my new grandaughter and comparing this to my daughter's EF Canon optics. The pastel colours and the special nuance of these photos in my view are so much better with the Leica. The Canon seems to have very high contrast but seems to lose out on the range of grey scale if I am describing the phenomena correctly. Something that does concern me is that repeatedly people in this forum suggest that digital is less forgiving in terms of focussing accuracy and early lenses may need recallibrating or tuning at the factory. I have seen some of my photos with the older lenses are slightly out of focus but I have attributed this to not being critical enough when using the rangefinder ......Is it a good idea to take all of my lenses to Solms and have them all checked over for focus accuracy or is this something that I can do using a tripod and a testcardat home ? ....at least to identify any lenses that are out of specification? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted July 17, 2009 Share #26 Posted July 17, 2009 two issues are being blurred: collecting and using. If you are concerned by results, find the lenses that work for you and get rid of the rest. Try a few asphs if max aperture sharpness and contrast is your bag and decide which lenses should stay and go. You will only know which ones truly give the results you want by using them regularly and you can't do that with a massive kit. You will find out what you use and what you don't. No point having a $3k lens you use every three years in earnest or fumbling about with a constantly changing kit bag and lenses that all feel, handle and perform differently. If you want to collect lenses, buy the ones you like (whatever the reason) because you will not have much of a chance to meaningfully push their performance in creative settings. In this scenario performance potential becomes fairly irrelevant. If you are using your lenses regularly in the field you are likely to find a four lens kit is about the upper limit not only for portability, but also familiarity, simplicity etc. I shoot 21, 28, 35, 50, often leaving the 21 at home and it is more than enough. This whole thing of six FLs (e.g. 18, 24, 25, 50, 75, 90) with slow lenses, ultra fast etc all ending up with a dozen or more lenses in regular use is a myth, at least for people who actually aim to produce great shots with some creative component. It may be true to studio/product photographers in some cases, but thats hardly the world of M photography! If you want to collect, go for it, but there is no real technical or objective reason for owning loads of lenses for a Leica M. It will, IMHO, hinder and not help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #27 Posted July 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) two issues are being blurred: collecting and using. If you are concerned by results, find the lenses that work for you and get rid of the rest. Try a few asphs if max aperture sharpness and contrast is your bag and decide which lenses should stay and go. You will only know which ones truly give the results you want by using them regularly and you can't do that with a massive kit. You will find out what you use and what you don't. No point having a $3k lens you use every three years in earnest or fumbling about with a constantly changing kit bag and lenses that all feel, handle and perform differently. If you want to collect lenses, buy the ones you like (whatever the reason) because you will not have much of a chance to meaningfully push their performance in creative settings. In this scenario performance potential becomes fairly irrelevant. If you are using your lenses regularly in the field you are likely to find a four lens kit is about the upper limit not only for portability, but also familiarity, simplicity etc. I shoot 21, 28, 35, 50, often leaving the 21 at home and it is more than enough. This whole thing of six FLs (e.g. 18, 24, 25, 50, 75, 90) with slow lenses, ultra fast etc all ending up with a dozen or more lenses in regular use is a myth, at least for people who actually aim to produce great shots with some creative component. It may be true to studio/product photographers in some cases, but thats hardly the world of M photography! If you want to collect, go for it, but there is no real technical or objective reason for owning loads of lenses for a Leica M. It will, IMHO, hinder and not help. I think what you say makes a lot of sense and it is actually the direction I am tending towards. I fully agree that having 3 and max 4 lenses when travelling or doing a day's outing is most definately the way to go, and it forces more concentration on the composure of the shot. > I probably would go for the 18mm or even a Zeiss 15mm for a super wide angle lens he 21m as the entry point...is it because of the f1.4 compared to f3.8 for the 18mm?... > The 28mm (ie 35mm on M8) 35mm (ie 50mm on M8) and a 50mm (ie 75mm on M8) ...makes sense I think ...maybe occassionally use the 75mm (ie 100mm on M8)? > Does anyone have a view on the 50mm Noctilux as a standard lens because my thought is to simply use the f1.0 Noctilux (that I already have) as a lens that I plan also to use at small apertures? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 17, 2009 Share #28 Posted July 17, 2009 Very well said, batmobile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 17, 2009 Share #29 Posted July 17, 2009 Does anyone have a view on the 50mm Noctilux as a standard lens because my thought is to simply use the f1.0 Noctilux (that I already have) as a lens that I plan also to use at small apertures? Why not? I've never used one but it would be up to you to decide if it's to big to carry around as a normal part of your kit. If you want a (somewhat) similar look you could go for a 50 Lux Pre-ASPH, which is much smaller and affordable on the used market. I would suggest that the 24/1.4 makes a lot of sense on the M8. It's the widest lens that doesn't need a finder, and that may be a big deal, especially when trying to focus in a fast situation wide open. You could go with a 24/1.4 and your Nocti for your main kit. Then add an 18/3.8 and your 75/1.4 as backups or for special situations. That would be an amazing 4-lens kit in my opinion. Don't forget the Zeiss 15mm isn't rangefinder coupled, which in my opinion makes it useless and overpriced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted July 17, 2009 Share #30 Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) I think what you say makes a lot of sense and it is actually the direction I am tending towards. I fully agree that having 3 and max 4 lenses when travelling or doing a day's outing is most definately the way to go, and it forces more concentration on the composure of the shot.> I probably would go for the 18mm or even a Zeiss 15mm for a super wide angle lens he 21m as the entry point...is it because of the f1.4 compared to f3.8 for the 18mm?... Last year I went to Crete with 5 lenses, way too many hesitations ... This winter I went to Argentina with 4 lenses, too many hesitations... This month I went to South of France with 3 lenses, still too many hesitations ... Next weekend, I'll go to London with two lenses, a 28mm Summicron and 60mm Hexanon 1.2. With that, the choice is wide or long. Long only when you really need the extra reach or for portraits. I feel now that for street photography, the maths are against too many lenses : - with 5 lenses, you cover 99% of the FOV needs, but will miss 20% of the decisive moments due to thinking about which lens and swapping. - with 2 lenses you cover 90% of the FOV needs (but still get a shot in 100% of case), but will miss only 5% of decisive moments. So my odds are better with 2 lenses only. If I still get hesitations ... I'll go with one ... and if I still get hesitations with one ... I'll go to a psy. Edited July 17, 2009 by yanidel Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2009 Share #31 Posted July 17, 2009 My standard kit: 24 Summilux - 50 Summilux asph - 90 Apo, two bodies. Basically all I need, although in some circumstances I might take a 21 Biogon2.8, CV 15 or on the other end 135 Tele Elmar. But in that case I would leave some other lens at home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #32 Posted July 17, 2009 Why not? I've never used one but it would be up to you to decide if it's to big to carry around as a normal part of your kit. If you want a (somewhat) similar look you could go for a 50 Lux Pre-ASPH, which is much smaller and affordable on the used market. I would suggest that the 24/1.4 makes a lot of sense on the M8. It's the widest lens that doesn't need a finder, and that may be a big deal, especially when trying to focus in a fast situation wide open. You could go with a 24/1.4 and your Nocti for your main kit. Then add an 18/3.8 and your 75/1.4 as backups or for special situations. That would be an amazing 4-lens kit in my opinion. Don't forget the Zeiss 15mm isn't rangefinder coupled, which in my opinion makes it useless and overpriced. Thanks excellent feedback ...I really did not know about the Zeiss NOT being coupled to the rangefinder and I had not thought about the 24mm viewfinder as I actually so far have not found the Leica M8 viewfinder all that useful other than as a pointing tool. I only today found the viewfinder lines. Thanks again Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted July 17, 2009 Share #33 Posted July 17, 2009 I actually so far have not found the Leica M8 viewfinder all that useful other than as a pointing tool. I only today found the viewfinder lines. As I said earlier, perhaps it's time to go back to basics before investing in additional lens gear? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2009 Share #34 Posted July 17, 2009 Well, it certainly is refreshing after all the complaining we had in this forum about the inaccuracy of the framelines.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted July 17, 2009 Share #35 Posted July 17, 2009 Well, it certainly is refreshing after all the complaining we had in this forum about the inaccuracy of the framelines.... Love your use of the term "refreshing" in this context, Jaap:D Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #36 Posted July 17, 2009 Last year I went to Crete with 5 lenses, way too many hesitations ...This winter I went to Argentina with 4 lenses, too many hesitations... This month I went to South of France with 3 lenses, still too many hesitations ... Next weekend, I'll go to London with two lenses, a 28mm Summicron and 60mm Hexanon 1.2. With that, the choice is wide or long. Long only when you really need the extra reach or for portraits. I feel now that for street photography, the maths are against too many lenses : - with 5 lenses, you cover 99% of the FOV needs, but will miss 20% of the decisive moments due to thinking about which lens and swapping. - with 2 lenses you cover 90% of the FOV needs (but still get a shot in 100% of case), but will miss only 5% of decisive moments. So my odds are better with 2 lenses only. If I still get hesitations ... I'll go with one ... and if I still get hesitations with one ... I'll go to a psy. I understand your logic very well. In fact the best Leica book I have ever read and inspired me towards buying a Leica is "The Leica and the Leicaflex" by Josef Makovec...here he talks about using a 35mm and a 90mm as being his basic kit for all travel using a M4. That is what I used for many years but I liked to also keep a 21mm handy for the occassional wow photo that changes the depth of field significantly. Basically it seems to me that is what Jaapv has done with his kit (24 /50 /90)and it is where I am going I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #37 Posted July 17, 2009 As I said earlier, perhaps it's time to go back to basics before investing in additional lens gear? Well OK I was being too honest..... The reality is that with super wide angle 21mm and 28mm in my experience the key is keeping the camera level rather than checking all is in the viewfinder. I can crop it later with Photoshop anyway. At 50mm (or 75mm) on the M8 we have a 75mm (or 90mm) telephoto and this has a good depth of field for portraits...Here I want to actually get in close to the subject but I honestly do not expect that the viewfinder is going to be very accurate. Judging from Jaapv comments others agree. hence my comments about it being a pointing tool......what I lose in framing I gain in speed of use compared to a SLR This is my opinion anyway. At 90mm on the M8 we are at 120mm and that really is difficult to frame properly. I actually think a lot of the framing issue is one of experience and I am still getting used to the crop factor on the M8 compared to 30 years of using the M4, and then the M5 and M6....so your comment about getting back to basics is well taken. It is true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted July 17, 2009 Share #38 Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) At 50mm (or 75mm) on the M8 we have a 75mm (or 90mm) telephoto and this has a good depth of field for portraits...Here I want to actually get in close to the subject but I honestly do not expect that the viewfinder is going to be very accurate. Judging from Jaapv comments others agree. hence my comments about it being a pointing tool......what I lose in framing I gain in speed of use compared to a SLR This is my opinion anyway. At 90mm on the M8 we are at 120mm and that really is difficult to frame properly. Then may I suggest you try a magnifier when using longer lenses? It could greatly improve your framing (and likely focussing) ability. Edited July 17, 2009 by Ecar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 17, 2009 Share #39 Posted July 17, 2009 I only today found the viewfinder lines. This is worrying me, Frank. If you've been an M user for many years, how could you fail to see the viewfinder lines in the M8? How have you been framing your shots previously, if you've not seen the lines? How have you been focussing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 17, 2009 Share #40 Posted July 17, 2009 This is worrying me, Frank. If you've been an M user for many years, how could you fail to see the viewfinder lines in the M8? How have you been framing your shots previously, if you've not seen the lines? How have you been focussing? Andy I have seen the lines but I did not relate to them as being 24 /35mm ; 50/75mm; 28/90mm...this is what I had to look up today in the manual, as these are only very superficially mentioned in Brian Bower's new book. I also know several Leica enthusiasts that try to use the camera at waist height to be inconspicuous I focus with the rangefinder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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