NZDavid Posted July 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Following on from the "Why Leica lenses are so expensive" post, and the reasoning that this is because of the painstaking care that goes into their assembly, I maintained that paying decent rates for those who assemble them -- certainly compared with offshore manufacture in China -- also factors through to the final price sticker. Not everyone agrees. So, I wonder, is "made in Germany" still important? It has long been an effective marketing slogan for all sorts of products from cars to shoes to tools. I am a big fan of German-made products and German design -- if they do indeed function better. As has been pointed out, Leica products are not exclusively made in Germany. (But it is more honest than "Voigtländer seit 1756", which, although a good product, is just hitching a ride on a prestigious name!) It appears there are no rules governing the use of the term. If that is in fact the case, does "made in Germany" really mean anything any more? Or, to put it another way, would "made in Germany" influence your decision to buy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here Made in Germany - does it mean anything any more?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2009 Not really. Nowadays "made in Japan" is about as good. My wife used to have a Suzuki Alto that started to rust terminally within three years. Explanation by Suzuki - "Sorry, this batch was made in India" She traded it in on a Swift, after making sure that one was indeed built in Japan. That was a sales point of the dealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyfel Posted July 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 16, 2009 Numerous consumer products I bought in the last five or ten years turned out to have a life span of about two years. I am not talking camera gear but more or less valuable things that were supposed to last (without beig unreasonable) at least twice as long. That (and the fact that my disposable income has increased) changed my attitude and I am now much more willing to pay a price for quality. Given the history of Leica manufacture and my (limited) experience with Leica gear in the last three years I am quite confident now that I will be using my Leica equipment happily for at least ten or fifteen more years to come. The same might be true for Zeiss or CV products, but I am not much into non-Leica brands (For other reasons though. Nothing to do with built quality). But there is another, equally important, reason for me to prefer Leica products. I just realized that it does not really make my own employement any safer if I spend most of my money on things that are produced in some other place several thousands of miles away. Sure, this is a quite simplified view but I am convinced there is some truth to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosefSchachner Posted July 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2009 On my personal list Made in Germany still ranks on top, Japan being a little behind, where Austria really rocks ;-) I try to buy in general high quality things, but truth to be told, that is also a function of disposable income. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEB Posted July 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2009 Interesting question. I try to be objective and my objectivity has led me to believe that my BMW is a better car than any American car I have ever owned (and I was born and raised in Michigan). I have a large collection of Festool power tools that simply are designed and built better than anything that directly tries to compete with them. While I do have a Nikon D3 and several of the latest generation of Nikon lenses (and the Nikon gear is fantastic) I most often reach for the Leica when I am contemplating street photography. In each case the German product is considerably more expensive than competing products but they genuinely do seem to be better thought out and built for the specific purpose. Mark B (East Lansing, Michigan) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted July 16, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 16, 2009 You should buy a Leica camera for what it is not for the name. The same holds for anything you buy. There is no general rule that some product is better because it carries a certain brand name or because it was made in some place. Sure enough, a Swiss watch, a German camera and Belgium chocolate deserve their reputation, but pricing pressure and competition are everywhere. Quality carries its price and should better deserve it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilpferd Posted July 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Take a look into history: The saying "made in Germany" once was forced by the british gouvernment in the 19th century to protect the british market from cheap german products. It was thought as a stigma, but it took contrary effect. regards, nilpferd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted July 16, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 16, 2009 I sometimes question it. My 80-200mm lens built in Japan is simply beautiful, mechanically very mooth to focus and operate into it's full movement comparad to my other Zoom the 28-90 mm which feels much more uneven in it's barral rotation especially around the 35mm setting which shows some resistance. however optically is superb. My first zoom the 35-70mm (Minolta) Made in Japan has been very smooth in it's operation. Personally I have no problems if Leicas are built in Japan. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 16, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2009 I'm a big fan of all things German - cars, cameras, furniture, kitchen appliances. Then there's the food (Traube Tonbach is recommended for the doubters), beer and wine. I even like their speeding tickets after they let me off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 16, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 16, 2009 I think even Leica themselves don't care about this anymore ... well actually, since a long time ago. Otherwise, why wouldn't they make EVERYTHING in Germany? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_d Posted July 16, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 16, 2009 I think "Engineered in Germany" means more than where the product is made. Great engineering design is the foundation of any product. The products that I own that were designed by German engineers are great performing products with a great deal of thought behind the design and most weren't made in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilpferd Posted July 16, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2009 Finally I mentioned that Canada is part of Germany Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/90854-made-in-germany-does-it-mean-anything-any-more/?do=findComment&comment=964129'>More sharing options...
miami91 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 16, 2009 I think "Engineered in Germany" means more than where the product is made. Great engineering design is the foundation of any product. The products that I own that were designed by German engineers are great performing products with a great deal of thought behind the design and most weren't made in Germany. I agree. There is good quality manufacturing to be had anywhere (even in China), and poor quality to be had anywhere. Materials matter just as much --- quality materials or poor materials can be shipped anywhere these days quite inexpensively. An example I've given before is Miele, the venerable German appliance maker. Miele North America manufactures almost all of it's products in Mexico, a country not exactly renowned for having a highly skilled workforce. However, the quality is excellent, comparable I'm sure to Miele's manufactured in Germany (I'm sure Miele insists on this). I own a washer, dryer, dishwasher, and coffee bar, and they are exceptional in form and function. Bottom line: If a company insists on top quality materials, workmanship, and quality control, output in low wage countries can certainly compete in quality to output from high wage countries. It's funny: when I bought my condo 3 years ago, I was present on-site when the appliance installers for my developer hooked up my Miele washer and dryer. The Miele's were upgrades --- by default, we were furnished with top of the line GE product. As they were wheeling and maneuvering the unit (stackable) into place in the laundry closet, one of them commented on how heavy it was, comparing it to the dozens of other installs (the GEs) they had done in the past several days. His coworker agreed, and said "this one is much better --- all metal construction". Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted July 16, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 16, 2009 ... would "made in Germany" influence your decision to buy?No. Have you bought any new Leica lenses recently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 16, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 16, 2009 I agree Miele are excellent. There's another appliance manufacturer, AEG which doesn't enjoy the same reputation. In Germany, AEG is said to stand for: "Auspacken, Einstecken, Geht's Nicht" (Unpack it, plug it in, doesn't work) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted July 16, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 16, 2009 It's funny: when I bought my condo 3 years ago, I was present on-site when the appliance installers for my developer hooked up my Miele washer and dryer. The Miele's were upgrades --- by default, we were furnished with top of the line GE product. As they were wheeling and maneuvering the unit (stackable) into place in the laundry closet, one of them commented on how heavy it was, comparing it to the dozens of other installs (the GEs) they had done in the past several days. His coworker agreed, and said "this one is much better --- all metal construction". Weight doesn't equate to quality. A few years back the cheap Italian washer-dryer that was here when I moved in died and I replaced it with a new Bosch unit. Il cheapo weighed more - but only because there was a huge concrete damping weight bolted to the drum casing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffster Posted July 16, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2009 Italian design with German engineering is the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miami91 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 16, 2009 Weight doesn't equate to quality. A few years back the cheap Italian washer-dryer that was here when I moved in died and I replaced it with a new Bosch unit. Il cheapo weighed more - but only because there was a huge concrete damping weight bolted to the drum casing. Agreed --- I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just relaying an anecdote. Likewise, a large percentage of plastic parts on an appliance doesn't mean it's fated for a short and unreliable life. Nevertheless, there's something about the solidity of certain things --- the materials, the way they're built, etc. --- that implies quality. In Miele's case, they have the track record (and warranties) to back this up. This is also one of the reasons that I love my Leica cameras, particularly the film ones (I own both M7s and R9s). They have a heft and solidity that feels so good as compared to other brands, or as compared to the Digilux/D-Lux lines. And this is one thing I'll regret about no R10 if our R lens solution ends up being a dSLR or EVIL from Panasonic --- there's no way it will be built as well as an R9. Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_d Posted July 16, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 16, 2009 Italian design with German engineering is the way to go. I'll drink to that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted July 16, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 16, 2009 Not wishing to detract from German engineering which we all know and love but Italian engineering is pretty amazing in its own right. Fiat/Alfa Romeo make brilliant high power turbo diesels, 1.9 litre => about 170 bhp Ferrari etc. no comment required Italian printing machines are world famous for high speed 4-color printing on plastic. This is as complicated as it gets as the printing web changes shape after each color is applied. OK, AFAIK they do not make camera's and they can be a bit 'quirky'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.