larry Posted November 12, 2006 Share #21 Posted November 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK for giving Leica some time of course but it is quite fortunate that some of us have discovered the bugs so soon IMO. Better this than class actions don't you think so? LCT, Thank you -- I wish all lawyers were as level-headed and thoughtful as you. (Please understand that as an American I've often become frustrated with our legal system, which can be excessively litigious.) Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 Hi larry, Take a look here Leica To Close . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share #22 Posted November 12, 2006 Brent, With all respect to your point of view, it is posts like yours that will give Leica the confidence to charge for the retrofit/ filters or whatever it takes to get the M8 'roadworthy'. This display of sympathy and understanding for LEICA is exactly what the average user like myself does not need. If I get a $300 bill for the three I/R filters I will need, it will be because of posts like yours. Andy No problem, Andy. If you need to blame someone else for something here, lay it on. I'll gladly take a bit of heat to get some of it away from Leica. I'd much rather they put their energy into fixing the problems than responding to the kind of outrage that's been expressed here. My opinion: If you buy filters now, knowing that Leica are working on a fix, that's your choice. They will most likely end up putting some kind of IR filter over the existing sensor, at which time your filters will be absolutely worthless. They will be putting this fix in place at their expense. Why should they also buy us all a host of filters that will go into the garbage by February or March of 2007? That's a bit unreasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted November 12, 2006 Share #23 Posted November 12, 2006 Brent, Firstly Leica do mot seem to be spending any time at all responding to the outrage on this forum, hence the outrage. Secondly the IR filter IS the fix.....if you think that there will be a refit of the sensor then I think you will be disappointed. Buy them now while they are cheap..in a month or so they will cost double;) No worries, each to their own. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted November 12, 2006 Share #24 Posted November 12, 2006 I think one should look at things in perspective. In few months you will read some of these frightened peoples comments on this forum - and smile a bit. And they probably all have bought back their M8 and are posting in the photo forum. I'm sure there has been issues with many Leica cameras in the past. Just imagine if the M8 had been the size of M5. But the users did not have the internet, nor a forum to discuss the horrors every ten minutes. In scanning slides on an Imacon I get all sorts of weird colors in on my scan that I have to correct. At least the Leica M8 colors are stable. So enjoy it as long as it last. Soon we'll discuss the qualities of the persons behind the camera and not the minor lacks in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted November 12, 2006 Share #25 Posted November 12, 2006 >> Brent how could you do this ? Tomorrow I have to see my doctor to get some new heartpills. Had to use the ones I had in stock tonight after I read your post. This was VERY nasty of you ... Please don´t do that again. Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted November 12, 2006 Share #26 Posted November 12, 2006 Sorry, but having to put an IR filter in front of very expensive Leica glass in order to correct a fundamental flaw in the M8 is totally unacceptable. Heck, I don't even put an UV filter there! Stop hammering this as THE solution so that Leica get away with it. I plainly refuse the IR filter as a solution. Let Leica put it on the sensor, if that's what it takes, but it's their business to do so, not mine. How would you like it if Porsche told you to tie a rubber band to your clutch because it does not release all the way up? As much as I feel Leica should be given the chance to correct the situation, and as much as I think there is a lot of abuse in the attacks Leica is under, I just can't stand this "shoot the messenger" atttidue anymore. I want Leica to succeed, I want my investment in the precious gear I had to trade in to finance my M8 put to good use, and I'm very excited about the M8, but I think we are very lucky that these problems have surfaced on the Internet thanks to some of these messengers people are now shooting at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimF Posted November 12, 2006 Share #27 Posted November 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Brent, Firstly Leica do mot seem to be spending any time at all responding to the outrage on this forum, hence the outrage. Could that be because they have more important things to do.........like working to find a solution to these problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 12, 2006 Share #28 Posted November 12, 2006 Brent, you about made my heart stop. Hello there still try to bring me back. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted November 12, 2006 Share #29 Posted November 12, 2006 I want Leica to succeed, I want my investment in the precious gear I had to trade in to finance my M8 put to good use, and I'm very excited about the M8, but I think we are very lucky that these problems have surfaced on the Internet thanks to some of these messengers people are now shooting at. I agree that reporting problems is fine and beneficial for all parties. But there are definable differences between reporting, editorializing and self-indulgent spinning based on speculation and rumor. There are some people here who just like to stir the pot. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted November 12, 2006 Share #30 Posted November 12, 2006 Could that be because they have more important things to do.........like working to find a solution to these problems? You mean to say that Leica PR , etc folks are working overtime to take care of this hardware issue?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayh Posted November 12, 2006 Share #31 Posted November 12, 2006 Hey, I want the M8 to work. It just strikes me that Leica is a lot better off knowing the problems that real world users run into with this camera than to be quiet and pretend they don't exist. It also is apparent that this camera could have used a little more end user testing before being sent out the door. Silence right now will not help Leica. ALL I'm trying to do is get people to relax a bit and give them a chance to work the bugs out. This stuff has spread from our forum to several others and the loss of credibility for Leica will hurt all of us in the end. Some people are so vitriolic in their remarks it seems they would have Leica just fold up and never bring another product to market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted November 12, 2006 Share #32 Posted November 12, 2006 Tim I agree the most important thing is to get the problems solved. Talking to customers is also pretty important.They pay people to do that normally, it is called customer service or public relations. Am still looking forward to my M8, how about you? cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnll Posted November 12, 2006 Share #33 Posted November 12, 2006 Leica have already made a clear statement that they know about (at least some of) the problems and that they are working on solutions. Don't expect them to keep chattering about it until they have something new and substantive to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share #34 Posted November 12, 2006 Hey, I want the M8 to work. It just strikes me that Leica is a lot better off knowing the problems that real world users run into with this camera than to be quiet and pretend they don't exist. It also is apparent that this camera could have used a little more end user testing before being sent out the door. Silence right now will not help Leica. They have not been silent. It's just that a lot of people aren't listening. Don't get me wrong. I am not being the official Leica apologist. The M8 has real problems and Leica has admitted it and said they will fix them. Further, I understand the value of making those problems known here so everyone is aware and so Leica feels the pressure to get the job done. But enough is enough. It's of little or no value at this point to keep hammering away at Leica, giving everyone the impression they will run from their responsibilities unless we keep barking at their asses. Here is what my dealer emailed me several days ago: "Just could get an reply from the Leica Company. They did inform me that they do know about this problem and they will solve it later on by adding an additional part, or change of the software. This will be done free of charge as an up-date." Further, the official statement from Leica just a couple of days ago, which many people of decided to either ignore or pretend doesn't exist: "Dear Friends of Leica, Customer feedback to us following the start of shipment of the LEICA M8 points to a performance under certain conditions that does not meet the expectations in the Leica brand. Our technical and engineering teams have isolated the source of these concerns und have identified definitive solutions. Over the next two weeks we will communicate a plan to further assure you of your investment in the LEICA M8. We hope for your understanding and support." And now, I'm going to go out and take some pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayh Posted November 12, 2006 Share #35 Posted November 12, 2006 I wasn't clear maybe. I meant silence on the part of their customers. Leica has issued the practically loquacious 75 words in the official press release you quoted. I just think the more user feedback they get, the better they will understand where the problems really lie. But agreed. Let's all go take some pictures. I'm going to use an MP, though. They have not been silent. It's just that a lot of people aren't listening. Don't get me wrong. I am not being the official Leica apologist. The M8 has real problems and Leica has admitted it and said they will fix them. Further, I understand the value of making those problems known here so everyone is aware and so Leica feels the pressure to get the job done. But enough is enough. It's of little or no value at this point to keep hammering away at Leica, giving everyone the impression they will run from their responsibilities unless we keep barking at their asses. Here is what my dealer emailed me several days ago: "Just could get an reply from the Leica Company. They did inform me that they do know about this problem and they will solve it later on by adding an additional part, or change of the software. This will be done free of charge as an up-date." Further, the official statement from Leica just a couple of days ago, which many people of decided to either ignore or pretend doesn't exist: "Dear Friends of Leica, Customer feedback to us following the start of shipment of the LEICA M8 points to a performance under certain conditions that does not meet the expectations in the Leica brand. Our technical and engineering teams have isolated the source of these concerns und have identified definitive solutions. Over the next two weeks we will communicate a plan to further assure you of your investment in the LEICA M8. We hope for your understanding and support." And now, I'm going to go out and take some pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted November 12, 2006 Share #36 Posted November 12, 2006 I'm going to use an MP, though. Good move, Clay! Thanks. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maio Posted November 12, 2006 Share #37 Posted November 12, 2006 Here's an even more novel idea: Pick up a camera, make some images and post them on the Photo forum. Actually, I'm doing just that. Did some Veteran's day stuff yesterday and went walking along the Rio Grande Bosque today. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to pick up the processed rolls as there is really only one place left in town I trust. I swear, I could almost feel the M7 purring as I used it. By the way, for those fanatics who voice disrespect for those of us who cancelled or returned their M8s, keep in mind two things: Financial pressure to get it right is much more effective than emails, phone calls, and forum complaints. The dealers have now joined the ranks demanding a proper solution. Now Leica has a pool of M8 bodies they can use to refit and re-deliver. If they had to start from raw materials, it would take many more months to get corrected M8s into the market place. I'll be back in line when a fix is announced and confirmed by users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 12, 2006 Share #38 Posted November 12, 2006 ... you gotta love it from some on this forum, after months of speculating amd wanting the best some are happy to accept ' second rate' .... in a word that is stupid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted November 12, 2006 Share #39 Posted November 12, 2006 "Solms--Leica Camera AG announced this morning that they will cease operation at the end of this month. The reason for this action, according to company officials, is the severe erosion of confidence in the company as evidenced by cancelled orders for their new venture in digital imaging, the Leica M8. Company officials explained further that, in an ironic twist, members of a web forum supported by the company fueled a wildfire storm of controversy over reported problems with the M8, which quickly spread to other web forums causing a collapse of the company's stock value." Relax. The above statement is NOT true. But the way several people on this forum have been acting, it may not be far off. I'd like to suggest that the people who have been spewing all the rumors and accusations just back off for a while, give Leica time to work out the problems with the M8 and stop acting like jilted boyfriends out for revenge. Here's an even more novel idea: Pick up a camera, make some images and post them on the Photo forum. It's been kind of lonely over there lately. If you look at the numbers, they generally show around 120 members viewing the Digital forum while around 10 are on the Photo forum. I guess that indicates how much easier it is to sit around and piss off than it is to actually go out and take a few good pictures. While I do fully agree on your comments to stop complaining about the infant issues the M8 still has, I must say I am completely frustated and dissappointed with the way how Leica did the early field tests of this camera. These issues should have been clear already long time before September 2006! And been solved! So this is the actula area, where thy did NOT DO their homework!!! Just for your interest, I tried to get one of the testers for the M8 - of course under full disclosure - but they said they have already enough testers who they trust. For me it is pretty obvious I would have noticed at least the Magenta issue, since I am working with multiple other profesional digital camera systems (Nikon, Canon and Olympus) and since many years. So simple comparisons would have shown easily that something is wrong. But Leica relied on other testers, and they failed. So what did all these testers do in rder to really nail down the product output ???? They all failed, as the current issues of the firts production units show! Sorry for this Leica, but it could have been avoided! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielma Posted November 12, 2006 Share #40 Posted November 12, 2006 mmm..interesting, 'rumors and accusations'..can you provide a few examples? Firstly Leica do mot seem to be spending any time at all responding to the outrage on this forum Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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