Guest m-photographer Posted July 11, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I´ve got a replacement mp, which produces a very strange shape of the exposed area on film. [edit] I have had the same discussion on flickr already, but I really like to know what you are thinking about. Best regards M-Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Hi Guest m-photographer, Take a look here MP - something strange. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted July 11, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 11, 2009 Shape masked by the bottom edge of the film gate somewhere unless it is related to your scanning. What did the brains trust at Flickr come up with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 11, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 11, 2009 For what its worth I am not sure your problem is all that big. This is what Solms thinks is quite acceptable apparently. The white border is the scanner holder ......... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Solms repaired it to this state after their previous service work left it with a diagonal black mask because they ran the film diagonally across the back. The film gate also runs the image across the film sprocket holes bottom of frames (top of film gate) and the framelines are out to a similar amount in the same direction so if you dont know what you are doing when you shoot with the camera you effectively lose about 4-5 mm off the height of the 24mm high negative. Someone will probably chime in and say I should have sent the camera in to solms and given them a chance to fix it. It will be the forth go, third times Solms have had, but Ive heard of some M6 going back six times. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Solms repaired it to this state after their previous service work left it with a diagonal black mask because they ran the film diagonally across the back. The film gate also runs the image across the film sprocket holes bottom of frames (top of film gate) and the framelines are out to a similar amount in the same direction so if you dont know what you are doing when you shoot with the camera you effectively lose about 4-5 mm off the height of the 24mm high negative. Someone will probably chime in and say I should have sent the camera in to solms and given them a chance to fix it. It will be the forth go, third times Solms have had, but Ive heard of some M6 going back six times. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/90482-mp-something-strange/?do=findComment&comment=959893'>More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 11, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 11, 2009 Mario I had a look at the flickr and wrt your curve, Open the back of your MP you will see a flat plate with the polished metal rails. Set the film speed to bulb and open the curtains. Beyond teh film plane then you will see a second metal mask in the proportions of 24x36. I dont know the manufacturing process but doubt that mask is curved at all. I suspect your MP has been assembled with this mask at a slight angle to the cutout in the plate that holds the polished film rails. In effect you get one corner of the image trimmed at one slight angle, the other side at another angle hence the apparent curve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2009 So you reckon yours is curved:eek:? Heres me thinking it would just be the alignment of the two. I wonder if you payed extra for that? Ah well. Theres mechanical perfection for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 12, 2009 Are you aware that different focal length lenses create different size negatives in the same camera? You know that the negatives/transparencies are virtually always cropped a little in printing and certainly in projection? You know that the frame lines are meant to approximate to the smaller framing you get? 24x36 is simply a nominal figure. Don't buy a larger format camera then, you'll have a seizure looking for 6x4.5 or 6x6 or anything else! Open the back of your camera and fire the shutter on B. You can easily see for your self the exact arrangement that creates the border of your negs. If you want to worry yourself further, borrow a vernier caliper and measure the opening for yourself. Just keep in mind that different focal lengths magnify differntly and that affects the neg dimensions very slighly. Honestly I think you are stressing your self unnecessarily. There will be absolutely zero practical effect from a deviation from perfect of a fraction of one percent as your pictures appear to show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernmelder Posted July 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now it continues... oh my... This discussion started and went on in the German area of the forum and on various other forum sites like Fotocommunity several months ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernmelder Posted July 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 12, 2009 Do you really think the "fault" - as you see it - was not there in the 1960's or 1970's? My M4 has also not "correct" borders of the frame window. I think this is part of the game and quite common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zwicko Posted July 12, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 12, 2009 Mario, there is absolutely nothing that hasn´t been said before. For those members that speak German have a look at these threads: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-kundenforum/74034-nur-f-r-leute-mit-starken.html (256 posts) Danke Leica! | Forum Analoge Fotografie - fotocommunity.de (looks like more than 200 posts) To all LUF members: Enjoy your sunday reading the above mentioned threads... Z. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewittehd Posted July 12, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 12, 2009 Mario, you also tried this on wer-weiss-was.de in March and got no futher. To put it short: nobody is obliged to follow ISO, it is voluntary period. You have bothered Leica to the point that they offered you more than one replacement, which you accepted and declared conform. You then found this mystical frame error and wasted 200-post threads on various sites. Just stop it, go out and take pictures. Jean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 12, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 12, 2009 I have had may M3' a M2, M4-2's, CL and now a M7 (whuch is away for DX reader update) and I have never seen anything like this on any of them. That means years ago with my original M3 and wet printing and today with scanning. I've reviewed some negative and don't see any curved boarders on any of them. Here are 2 shots of a M3 & M4-2. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I see some curving of the frame gate but I'm not sure it is from the slight angle I took the shots from or if it is really curved. As I said I don't notice it on the negatives and I don't see it on scans. But that could be my scanner, a Epson V700, croping out the edges giving me straight horizontal & vertical lines. In that case I d look to the scanner to corp/straight the image during the scanning. The thing you need to do is project these negatives with a enlarger onto a perfectly squared corner piece of paper. As to you saying I don't want to crop at all. Well that's just silly. Everyone crops there images at some point. Whether it is in the darkroom and enlarger or what a digital camera produces as the output or in photoshop before posting or inkjet printing or after the wet print or inkjet print is made during the mounting process. So you are saying removing anything from any image, even if it is to straight the image in some way, is not acceptable. Sorry get real. As to you getting a replacement MP. What was wrong with the first one that Leica had to replace it. You probably got one that was made when Steve Lee was in charge. Here is your shot cropped to remove the curved edges. Please tell what is missing from this image compared to the one you posted on Flicker. Other then the curved edges. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I see some curving of the frame gate but I'm not sure it is from the slight angle I took the shots from or if it is really curved. As I said I don't notice it on the negatives and I don't see it on scans. But that could be my scanner, a Epson V700, croping out the edges giving me straight horizontal & vertical lines. In that case I d look to the scanner to corp/straight the image during the scanning. The thing you need to do is project these negatives with a enlarger onto a perfectly squared corner piece of paper. As to you saying I don't want to crop at all. Well that's just silly. Everyone crops there images at some point. Whether it is in the darkroom and enlarger or what a digital camera produces as the output or in photoshop before posting or inkjet printing or after the wet print or inkjet print is made during the mounting process. So you are saying removing anything from any image, even if it is to straight the image in some way, is not acceptable. Sorry get real. As to you getting a replacement MP. What was wrong with the first one that Leica had to replace it. You probably got one that was made when Steve Lee was in charge. Here is your shot cropped to remove the curved edges. Please tell what is missing from this image compared to the one you posted on Flicker. Other then the curved edges. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/90482-mp-something-strange/?do=findComment&comment=960178'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 12, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 12, 2009 Wouldn't it be easier to go to a dealers and run a roll of film through another camera to see how it compares? (or post a photo to compare with the ones above). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RITskellar Posted July 12, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 12, 2009 I´ve got a replacement mp, which produces a very strange shape of the exposed area on film. I have had the same discussion on flickr already, but I really like to know what you are thinking about. Best regards M-Photographer Much ado about nothing, if you ask me. For what it's worth, this probably has nothing to do with the camera, and more to do with the curvature of the film during exposure and/or scanning, simply because the film isn't perfectly flat against the focal/scanning plane. Either way, good luck obsessing about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 12, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 12, 2009 So where have all the posts gone? All the admin deletions have left me talking to myself up there? There was nothing offensive? This is turning into a funny sort of a place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted July 12, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 12, 2009 Sorry for the abrupt deletion of posts without further explanation: I was on the leave and returned a few minutes ago. To make a long story short: Mario is on a crusade against Leica which is running now for about two years. He abused this forum as well as other platforms. He was banned here infinitely before but now registered a new account and tried immediately to continue his campaign. I'll be talking to my lawyer if it's possible to take legal action. What he does is in my eyes libel and slander - and according to German laws I'm running risk as editor of this to be accused by indirectly supporting his actions. Beside the legal aspects: I talked to Leica about his case and in my eyes Leica did everything a company should do to satisfy customers - and a lot more. Best regards Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted July 12, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 12, 2009 The good news is he is in stable conditions since two years which makes the long-time prognosis positive. The bad news is there seems to be no cure:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 12, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 12, 2009 In that case I think the thread should be closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 12, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 12, 2009 Hi James and all LUF friends, Before closing this thread as James said , I would like to bring my evidence of "Leicaiste" for 41 years. I always had Leica cameras between my hands and I have never had to complain about Leica. I had between my hands several cameras R then M (M7 and 2 M8) with optics R and M and not other marks. My usage is completely normal as all of you. my family uses other marks as N.. or C... I have never had to complain as well at the time of the purchase of these cameras and of optics bought all as new. The service after sale to my agent Leica and Solms is also without reproach. I think (and you will agree with me) that all apparatus has its qualities and its defects but Leica could find a good compromise and the report quality/price does not have any comparison with other marks. ...it's reality according to me Regards Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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