mwilliamsphotography Posted November 10, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Inspired by Victor's attempts to adjust the black/magenta out of M8 images using Photoshop, I took a crack at it. After processing a couple hundred thousand digital images, you pick up a trick or two. Here's the A,B,C criteria I set for myself: [A] Any solution could NOT require any selection process ... which rules out the "Replace Color" function under "Adjustments" that Victor suggested. Why? 1) Because once a balanced solution is found, you want to be able to write a Photoshop action. Using any selection process can NOT be part of an action because it is a variable from photo to photo. 2) If you can write an action, then it can be applied when converting RAW files in ACR to tiffs or jpgs using the "Image Processor" available in Bridge. While this will add a few minutes to the Image Processor work, it isn't you doing it. [ B] The objective isn't to get perfect images, it's to get them close enough for proofing so they look relatively normal ... blacks that are black. Why? Because a perfectly balanced average color palette doesn't exist. Every image has some anomalies in it that we tweak before printing. [C] The solution can NOT affect other colors to the degree that they no longer are relatively correct ... especially in this case REDs ... AND ... It has to be acknowledged that when the exact level of deep magenta exists elsewhere in the shot ... the magenta action may not work ... requiring that image be treated using selection in PS like Victor demonstrated. So, here's what I did: I toggled back and forth between "Select Color", "Saturation", and "Color Balance" ... none of which require any part of the image be singled out using any selection process ("Select Color" just allows you to select a specific color to affect wholesale changes on). I started by just playing around intuitively with these three controls. It worked. I did it again on another image. Worked again. What this will now require is at least a full day's work to isolate the exact process in terms of cronological order, degree of adjustments, and setting an average so it can be applied to a range of images from bright to dark. Then write a blanket PS Action. It's a day someone else more skilled than I needs to do ... because it'll take me more than a day, and I don't have the time. Perhaps Leica should put someone on this? : -) Here are my results. Again, not perfect... but close enough for proofing. Note that the red dot is uneffected !!!!! ... and the lens markings on the 110/2FE are color correct. At the very least it suggests there may be an answer that doesn't necessarily involve IR cut filters on the lens. Maybe a combination of a bit stronger IR internal filter, firmwear, and custom software processing profiles. Further thoughts? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8914-m8-back-out-of-the-box-a-possible-solution/?do=findComment&comment=89606'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Hi mwilliamsphotography, Take a look here M8: Back out of the box ( a possible solution : -). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter41951 Posted November 10, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2006 Well done. Certainly good enough for proofing in the meantime until Leica solves the problem. (Anything avoiding IR filters on the lenses will be good as it'll keep costs down for a start.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 10, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 10, 2006 I dont want to be negative but I would assume the problem was if there are subjects which have a color close to purple in reality? How does the action influence reds, blues etc. in an image? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 10, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 10, 2006 .........yeah but you still shouldn't expect to have to do such post processing work. It's not a solution to Leica's problem which is how to get the camera to produce accurate results in the first place. If you bought a new car and found it had a design fault that meant you could only turn left, I'm sure you could plot every route accordingly but would you want to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 10, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 10, 2006 The shot of the jackets has blue in the wall behind and a red box on the table, and in the shot of the lady by the piano she is wearing red lipstick. Someone else on the forum has suggested one should work on the fullsize image not on one reduced for display. (NB This PS tinkering is a temporary diversion for those who already have the camera, and I am not one of them. I certainly am not putting this forward as the solution and I don't anyone else is. It is for rescuing shots in the meantime. It is a possible solution for the moment.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osera Posted November 10, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 10, 2006 I think it looks pretty good for, as you say, a temporary fix for proofing. I'd like to see more. .........yeah but you still shouldn't expect to have to do such post processing work. It's not a solution to Leica's problem... Yes, I understand. These are not solutions to the problems. But I for one appreciate all these efforts to ease the problem in the interim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 10, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 10, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear marc This may in fact be a better appraoch. In both actions the selection of the color for the magenta phenoenon will be narrow compared to the available 65,000 and in the bucket of selected colors reds are still likely left alone.. Yours may actually be more amenable to an action,since the action can pick the subsequent steps. Someone who is a PS wiz should try this As for the grumbling (ah das wunderbare deutsche Wort, Noergeln!), be prepared for it. I wish those people would just read, and use their other tools. To my knowledge none of the Leica fans troll the Canon and Nikon forua with such insesent harping on the same complaining themes. We are not deaf. We got it the first time. Now, let us fix OUR problem. We own this camera. Anyway,Marc, good work! regards Victor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 10, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 10, 2006 I'm not grumbling and I only use Leica 35mm. It's my problem also if I'm a prospective purchaser thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 10, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 10, 2006 Victor--enough already! Though I've put money down, I don't have an M8 yet, so I can hardly start "fixing" it (and yeah--I shouldn't have to). Thank you though, for showing us your PS fix. Marc--outstanding fixes, thank you. If they actually can be made into an action without a selection, that will take care of proofing. I take it for the final art you'd have to tweak a bit more carefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share #10 Posted November 10, 2006 Yes, more would be done for a final print ... but that would often be true anyway. For example many lens barrels do show a slightly different color cast with any digital capture ... which for a product image would be attended to in final tweaks. This is not a fix. It's a "work around" for now ... one that has yet to be proven applicable to a broad variety of shots and lighting conditions. However, that I could do it without the light areas going green and maintaining the other colors proves promising ... maybe a solution can be found that isn't a monumental redesign. Then agin, maybe not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 10, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 10, 2006 Very positive stuff Marc. Thank you. This train will stay on the track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 10, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 10, 2006 Yes jamie you are right Soapbox retired! :-) Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
msadat Posted November 10, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 10, 2006 mark, thanks very much. please do share your final (or close enough) PS action. at least this time we did get a response (much better than ND). PS i have shot only in daylight so far with the m8 and results are just great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 10, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 10, 2006 ("Select Color" just allows you to select a specific color to affect wholesale changes on). marc how is the magenta selected then? BTW, actions DO allow for eyedropper input Victor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
booggerg Posted November 10, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 10, 2006 In the two shots of the Leicas, I see some lose of details in the higlights of the M3. Is this unavoidable with this solution? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted November 10, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 10, 2006 Good effort, Marc. What would one do about the color fringing (as in the 3rd shot- green fringes in the background edges)? Any steps for that in PS? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_green Posted November 10, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 10, 2006 Out of curiosity, has anyone tried shooting the problem blacks with a polarizer? Victor made a comment about possibly a prismatic effect in some fabrics, so perhaps polarization might help. Again, as a temporary fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted November 10, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 10, 2006 Marc, I tried something similar on the Hasselblad image and got pretty good results myself after fooling around for about 10 minutes. This led me to believe that a firmware update or RAW converter solution might be feasible. I'm curious - can you describe your sequence in detail? I did mine at about 2:30 in the morning & didn't write it down.... PS I got my M8 today despite all the concerns and am looking forward to taking it for a spin this afternoon. I'll post a shot or two when I get back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 10, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 10, 2006 Well, my dealer just called and said "it's probably here!" How do you like that?! Probably! So I might have mine tomorrow, and then, taking Victor and Marc's lead, I'll give some things a try as well for workarounds and let everyone know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 10, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 10, 2006 Hey Marc, The B+W 486 filters work beautifully for this. More next week but I recommend considering that route. Am now going to shoot big wedding with 2 M8s. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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