gareth_c Posted November 9, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Richard Caplan has an M8 day today so for anyone who wants to get a hands on test here is your opportunity. The gentleman I spoke to earlier at Richard Caplan told me that Magenta issues are nothing but sour grapes by a couple of americans who got pre-production models! I am desperate to get up there to see for myself. If I get the time to get there today i will, and will be showing him the examples posted here at the forum, of these 'sour grapes' issues. Question is, does the shop really think there is no issue? Have leica communicated anything to them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 Hi gareth_c, Take a look here M8 day in london and dealer repsonse.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rfleica Posted November 9, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 9, 2006 Richard Caplan has an M8 day today so for anyone who wants to get a hands on test here is your opportunity. The gentleman I spoke to earlier at Richard Caplan told me that Magenta issues are nothing but sour grapes by a couple of americans who got pre-production models! I am desperate to get up there to see for myself. If I get the time to get there today i will, and will be showing him the examples posted here at the forum, of these 'sour grapes' issues. Question is, does the shop really think there is no issue? Have leica communicated anything to them? gareth this is where mine is on order. i will talk to them, since i will postpone my order until this all gets sorted - could be a long wait:mad: . i cant get up there today, so showing them the magenta and streaks and blobs would be a great if you get the chance. there might be a leica guy or two there fwiw. the dealer's member of staff's "sour grapes" stance is very, very, very disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 9, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 9, 2006 Richard Caplan has an M8 day today so for anyone who wants to get a hands on test here is your opportunity. The gentleman I spoke to earlier at Richard Caplan told me that Magenta issues are nothing but sour grapes by a couple of americans who got pre-production models! I am desperate to get up there to see for myself. If I get the time to get there today i will, and will be showing him the examples posted here at the forum, of these 'sour grapes' issues. Question is, does the shop really think there is no issue? Have leica communicated anything to them? This is a true British answer! what about thanking these Americans for spotting the problems and saving us, European, many Euros and time wasting??? Are these Americans just nagging for nothing? are they coating their pictures with a purple layer??? NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So please tell you sales man to think twice before telling this kind of things and, at least, to coordinate his answer with Leica in Germany!!! I am not American, but if I were, I would be offended enough to report this guy to Leica and make sure he would lose his Leica official distribution !!!!!!!!! You call him a Gentleman? I see British and French (as I am) surely do not have the same scale for valuing salesmen! Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted November 9, 2006 Too much shouldn't be read in to the 'sour grapes' comment,infact I shouldn't have posted such a thing I think. My bigger worry is that I honestly don't think they have been told of any issues by leica. I have spoken to two other dealers this morning who seem to have heard nothig of the problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 9, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2006 It's typical weasel-like salesman talk. Disappointing but not surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfleica Posted November 9, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 9, 2006 This is a true British answer! Eric A little bit offensive, methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper67 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have also just spoken to my dealer in Greece and he has NOT heard anything. In fact he received an email last night from Leica about some C1 licensing that needs to be sorted out so that people use their activation key so as not to turn the software in demo mode! I have sent him a link of the forum and our conversations. He called me back and told me to wait and see if he gets any official announcement from them. He will let me know he said immediately. It really seems that Leica has not taken this seriously enough. I also told him that I will probably cancel my order with the news so far.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted November 9, 2006 I just spoke to someone at Leica UK who say they are aware of the activity on the forums and that someone is out investgating now. However, they haven't yet heard from Solms and they don't yet have fist hand experience of the problems so have nothing to report to solms themselves. Though they have seen some of the images at the forum. Unfortunately they don't appear to actually have an M8 in their posession to test. He hopes that we may hear something in the next day or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blovitch Posted November 9, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 9, 2006 I suspect that was probably the same person I spoke to yesterday, and the same person I emailed on Monday... I have put a little more pressure on my dealer today, so hopefully he can elicit a little more positive action out of Leica UK. As for the dealer where the "Elite Meet and Greet " I would expect nothing less than ambivalance to any problems reported. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 9, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 9, 2006 A little bit offensive, methinks. yes you are right, sorry, for involving the whole British nation in my opinion about one particular salesman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioriw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 9, 2006 Well this sudden scare-off will be exposing the less than scrupulous dealers who have been greedily eyeing the profit margins on their nice long preorder backlogs for weeks and months now. They thought they'd bagged thousands and have probably been out spending already in anticipation... The good dealers should be as worried as we are about the cameras quality issues, not about cancelled pre-orders. To be honest it is increasingly difficult to find any leica dealership that have as much (real) enthusiasm for the cameras as they do for the chime of the cash register. That's going on my experiences in London and Frankfurt as a younger studenty Leica shooter. Iori Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 9, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 9, 2006 In the product engineering world, there are some hallowed traditions. Don't talk to people unless you need them to do something. There is no such word as failure or problem. Don't make statements until you have solutions... I'm not very happy with this closed attitude, but I understand its sources. We're lucky to have gotten as much information as we have, in a relatively open and unguarded form, even though it has been relayed through people that Leica trusts not to panic. The marketing community would normally be the last to hear of a problem, until a satisfactory solution is ready to be communicated. I don't think we have seen such a solution yet. Remember the discussion about "how could Leica encode their lovely data in just 8 bits?" We were going to get an answer to that, but it has been drowned in other controversies. The best thing for the user and wannabe user community is to keep informed and asking good questions. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted November 9, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2006 Lori I think that camera dealers should not be castigated for being interested in their profit margins - after all that's what they are in business for ! BUT they should be taking this whole matter seriously. As for American sour grapes - I thought it was Pascal who first brought this to our attention ! Sadly the shop mentoned is NOT a place to meet and greet the Elite - whom ever they may be? Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper67 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 9, 2006 Since it seems that Leica is trying to downplay the problem (from the official remarks given) I would suggest that each and everyone call up their delaers and point their attention to the forum or somehow make it clear to them that there are a lot of people that are concerned with the situation. I don't think its enough to assume that someone from Leica reads these posts on regualr period. We want to get the message out that there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed quickly and in an appropriate manner. We don't want a patch we want this thing fixed! So guys get to the phones.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 9, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 9, 2006 The people who figured out the content of the M8 files by decoding the dng were a Russian, an Israeli, a Chinese and a Canadian ("those 8-bit loonies"). The first person to show an obvious streak was an Italian, followed by a number of shots in Paris. The purple tinges showed up everywhere at once, and were recognized in earlier pictures. The only American to take a unique role is Sean Reid, who has lost a lot of sleep and taken a lot of grief for just trying to be an honest messenger. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioriw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 9, 2006 Lori I think that camera dealers should not be castigated for being interested in their profit margins - after all that's what they are in business for ! BUT they should be taking this whole matter seriously. As for American sour grapes - I thought it was Pascal who first brought this to our attention ! Sadly the shop mentoned is NOT a place to meet and greet the Elite - whom ever they may be? Bruno I was talking only of the dealers interested ONLY in not upsetting their heavily laden pre-orders boat.. business is absolutely not about the margins, look at Stelios Just to clarify my own position: I did not mention Americans or the Elite or any specific shops. One of my dealers has made so much wonga of late that he has done away with the shop format almost altogether. There are four plush leather chairs, some glass display cases with polished pricless M historica, all the new product is hidden in fitted inlaid wooden cupboards, there are books and magazines about M-magic moondust tastefully arranged.. From what I've seen the average customer is Asian, rests his bag of cash on one of the leather chairs while the gear is lifted out of a cupboard, and high-tails it out of there onto the next flight east. The way things are going how long before LVMH move in and boutique-ize us right up our Beverly Hills? iori not Lori Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 9, 2006 The boutique deal had a lot to do with Hermes, as far as I know. The new owner is a Leica-fanatic, and I doubt we will see the rivers of special editions of the years past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioriw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 9, 2006 I'm talking about current changes to a significant Leica dealership. They couldn't do enough to jokingly push cases, grips, batteries and extra lenses onto me, "new camera, new lenses, right" the guy quipped... as if the sight of a youngster plonking down 3k in cash didnt quite satisfy him enough. That money was from a hard earned scholarship bursary for my work.. they think everyone coming in the door for an M8 is from the Gucci/Vuitton/Fendi/+ disposable income set.. I was shocked at the crestfallen expressions on the staff members as I declined my leather case and ASPH 'luxes. Greed is visible more than ever now in this M8 rush... i Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 9, 2006 The Berlin dealers I know of are not like this at all. They have been courteous, knowledgeable, and very helpful about determining that my M8 needed a rangefinder adjustment for improper focusing at infinity. Your dealer is also not the responsibility of Leica, that much is clear. I still do think that their mindset is an outgrowth of the Hermes days, not any indication of the goals of Leica themselves. In fact, although the M8 is rather expensive, I think that two things point at Leica trying to move away from the tiny niche they have moved into in the last decades. First of all, the additional cost over an M7 or MP is surprisingly small. Secondly, they have hired a BestBuy top manager, surely an indication of a wish to move more into the mainstream again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 9, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2006 The only American to take a unique role is Sean Reid, who has lost a lot of sleep and taken a lot of grief for just trying to be an honest messenger. scott I sincerely hope not! I'm sure we all appreciate that Sean was only passing on the comments he had received, but as Leica will know that those comments have been made public they really should come out with something more formal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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