doubice Posted June 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Something that’s been bothering me ever since I bought the Digilux 2 - close to 4 years ago…….. Most of the time, I use the Digilux 2 in aperture priority auto, if necessary partially depress the shutter release, lock the exposure/focus, re-frame and shoot. No problems there. What has been puzzling me though, is how the Digilux 2 works in manual mode. It seems to me that in order to take a correct measurement, one has to constantly partially press and release the shutter release, and keep on adjusting the f-stop or shutter speed until the meter bar in the finder is centered. I am unable to adjust the meter display (in manual mode only) if I partially depress the release and adjust the shutter speed or aperture. If I than adjust the aperture and press the release partially again, the metering bar will appear again and will show the change in the setting. I would assume that the metering display bar should stay on permanently in manual mode and any changes in ambient light or exposure settings should be immediately visible. This does not make sense and I hope I explained myself so that the issue can be understood…. Is this the way the Digilux 2 should work? Am I doing something wrong? I have studied the manual, even the manual of its Panasonic sibling but, the explanation of the manual metering procedure is rather vague. Definitely does not mention anything about the experience I am having. Anybody willing to try how their Digilux 2 meter works in manual mode? Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 Hi doubice, Take a look here Digilux 2 manual metering query...... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
John Thawley Posted June 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 16, 2009 The simple test is to put the camera in manual everything mode, hold the shutter down half way.... take a reading. Now without releasing the shutter button spin the aperture closed to a different f/ stop than what appears on the display... press the shutter the rest of the way. Playback the image and display the settings to view what was actually used to expose the image. It will read what the meter read. So... once you take a reading... assuming you don't release the shutter button, the image will expose to the meter readings displayed. So, it's apparent, the shutter once depressed half way is overriding any other changes ... This DOES NOT hold true for manual focus, however. Whether your magnification assist is active or not... holding down the shutter partially will NOT lock the manual focus. It's functionality is continuous. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted June 16, 2009 John, Thanks for your input. My issue is that I expect the Digilux 2 to work in manual mode the way all cameras with built-in meters used to work or still work. The metering bar / arrows / diodes / whatever is used to adjust exposure should respond to changes in f-stop / shutter speed / ambient light and I should be able to use the display to set the correct exposure in, for a lack of better word, a linear and instant way. As it is, I aim the camera, press the shutter release half way and the metering bar appears in the finder, indicating say, underexposure. I turn the aperture dial to compensate, but the yellow marker on the metering bar does not move. It will only jump to a new position once I have released pressure on the shutter release and pressed it half-way again. This should have nothing to do with auto or manual focus settings. To transplant this issue into the M6/7/8 world - this is the same as if I metered with those cameras and the arrows did not change until I released pressure on the shutter release and re-applied it again. This does not make sense..... Hopefully, Thorsten the Digilux 2 guru should be getting out of bed just about now........ Stumped...... Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 16, 2009 John, Thanks for your input. My issue is that I expect the Digilux 2 to work in manual mode the way all cameras with built-in meters used to work or still work. The metering bar / arrows / diodes / whatever is used to adjust exposure should respond to changes in f-stop / shutter speed / ambient light and I should be able to use the display to set the correct exposure in, for a lack of better word, a linear and instant way. As it is, I aim the camera, press the shutter release half way and the metering bar appears in the finder, indicating say, underexposure. I turn the aperture dial to compensate, but the yellow marker on the metering bar does not move. It will only jump to a new position once I have released pressure on the shutter release and pressed it half-way again. This should have nothing to do with auto or manual focus settings. To transplant this issue into the M6/7/8 world - this is the same as if I metered with those cameras and the arrows did not change until I released pressure on the shutter release and re-applied it again. This does not make sense..... Hopefully, Thorsten the Digilux 2 guru should be getting out of bed just about now........ Stumped...... Jan However, I think you are overlooking the fact that the Digilux 2 uses an EVF. You aren't actually viewing TTL. You might be metering TTL... but I'm guessing that reading can only be reported to the EVF intermittently. Just curious, what sort of problem is this creating for you? I know Thorsten and I both share a tiny bit of frustration that the detente of the shutter button controls the shutter and auto focus simultaneously... but in reality, the meter is only a "guide" or suggestion anyway. JT JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted June 16, 2009 Hello John, However, I think you are overlooking the fact that the Digilux 2 uses an EVF. You aren't actually viewing TTL. You might be metering TTL... but I'm guessing that reading can only be reported to the EVF intermittently. I don't think the EVF is the issue, as both aperture and shutter speed are changing in real time when values change. I would expect the yellow marker to move along the metering bar as well. Just curious, what sort of problem is this creating for you? Not really a problem per se; as I mentioned I use aperture priority auto most of the time and adjust as necessary. Sometimes however, I want to do a manual measurement using the spotmeter or, measure a particular area of the frame and this is where I run into this issue. I would have assumed that manual metering on the Digilux 2 could be used the same way as on any other camera in the past: switch the meter on, adjust the aperture and shutter speed while following a moving indicator in the finder, center the indicator and shoot. I just checked my wife's Canon G7's manual mode and that is exactly how it works. No switching the meter on and of to get the metering bar's indicator to move. Maybe this is how the Digilux 2 was designed, it has been puzzling me for quite some time and I finally remembered what a well of knowledge this forum was and posted the query. Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted June 16, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 16, 2009 ........You aren't actually viewing TTL. You might be metering TTL... /quote] John, I always assumed that we were actually viewing TTL, if you put the lens cap on, you see nothing, if you take it off, you see stuff. How does that work then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) ........You aren't actually viewing TTL. You might be metering TTL... /quote] John, I always assumed that we were actually viewing TTL, if you put the lens cap on, you see nothing, if you take it off, you see stuff. How does that work then? You're actually viewing the image off the sensor. So actually it does have a bit of processing etc. Similarly, I've used "Live View" on my Canons when I shoot rolling car-to-car shots. The auto focus in Live View relies more on contrast. With race cars it's fairly good since there is lots of contrast. With street cars however, it can be a nightmare. I shot a silver Corvette recently and the autofocus had nothing to hang onto. JT JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 16, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 16, 2009 Hello John, I don't think the EVF is the issue, as both aperture and shutter speed are changing in real time when values change. I would expect the yellow marker to move along the metering bar as well. Jan The EVF is most definitely the issue. If you watch the light of the EVF when you press the shutter half way, you'll see it also LOCKS. Frame a scene. Press the button half way... now holding it down, move to a much brighter scene. The EVF's image WILL NOT change. Now without leaving the scene, release the shutter button and press it down half way again. The EVF will adjust to the scene. I would deduce from that that the meter is getting it's information from the sensor. I think AudiAudi might be the best resource for this one. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted June 16, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 16, 2009 You're actually viewing the image off the sensor. So actually it does have a bit of processing etc. Similarly, I've used "Live View" on my Canons when I shoot rolling car-to-car shots. The auto focus in Live View relies more on contrast. With race cars it's fairly good since there is lots of contrast. With street cars however, it can be a nightmare. I shot a silver Corvette recently and the autofocus had nothing to hang onto. JT JT Yes; so you are viewing Through The Lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 16, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 16, 2009 Yes; so you are viewing Through The Lens. Then you have more faith in the transparency of the sensor and it's electronics than I do. Now... answer me this. In B&W Jpeg mode... how are you getting that Black & White "view" TTL? And yet, when I put my Canon DSLR in Monochrome setting, when I look through the viewfinder, the "view" is in living color? I know what you are saying... and I understand your insistence. But what we are looking at is not through the lens, it's off the sensor. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 17, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 17, 2009 John and Pete, With respect to you both I think you are talking at cross-purposes and both are right. Yes, you are viewing through the lens, hence the lights go out when you put the lens cap on, but you are viewing the output from the sensor rather than a reflected, unprocessed image directly from the lens as you would in an slr. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 17, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 17, 2009 John and Pete, With respect to you both I think you are talking at cross-purposes and both are right. Yes, you are viewing through the lens, hence the lights go out when you put the lens cap on, but you are viewing the output from the sensor rather than a reflected, unprocessed image directly from the lens as you would in an slr. Pete. Yeah... what he said. LOL I'm half yanking Pete's chain a bit. After all, he's probably still enjoying REAL fish n' chips, REAL Shepard's pie and REAL Yorkshire pudding. Me? I got McDonalds and Burger King. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted June 17, 2009 The EVF is most definitely the issue. If you watch the light of the EVF when you press the shutter half way, you'll see it also LOCKS. Frame a scene. Press the button half way... now holding it down, move to a much brighter scene. The EVF's image WILL NOT change. Now without leaving the scene, release the shutter button and press it down half way again. The EVF will adjust to the scene. I would deduce from that that the meter is getting it's information from the sensor. I think AudiAudi might be the best resource for this one. JT OK, guys - lets agree that what we see is the sensor and it is the sensor that is “looking” through the lens. The sensor than sends the image to the finder and the LCD. Pete’s post appeared as I was typing this…… Back to my original issue: John, the behaviour you are describing is what happens in Auto mode - the aperture opens up or closes automatically and thus adjusts the brightness of the finder automatically. The same happens in Manual mode except, it happens manually - as you adjust the aperture or shutter speed closer to correct exposure, the finder will get closer and closer to 'normal' brightness. I assume that in both cases we are seeing the behaviour of the sensor. So - why does the finder’s exposure information display change in auto mode, as you frame areas of different brightness? Why is the same continuously available information not available in Manual mode? By ‘information’ I mean the yellow notch which moves along the meter info bar on the bottom of the finder. We all remember how manual metering works (at least some of us do…) - you did not have to switch the meter off to measure a different brightness level….. And as I mentioned in my previous post - my wife’s Canon G7 works just like it should when switched to manual. Surely, the G7’s meter is also getting its information from the sensor? In manual mode it displays a vertical metering bar with an index that moves up and down as light levels change or as exposure settings get adjusted. I would expect the yellow index of the Digilux 2 to move along the horizontal bar in the same manner….. I am still puzzled………. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 17, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 17, 2009 I'm half yanking Pete's chain a bit. ... D'oh, I missed that!, John After all, he's probably still enjoying REAL fish n' chips, REAL Shepard's pie and REAL Yorkshire pudding. As a piece of pure surreality yesterday: some colleagues were pouring some goop from a plastic squeezy bottle onto their fresh, steaming fish and chips. When I checked out the bottle of goop the label said it was "Traditional Fish and Chip Shop Taste non-brewed condiment." (This must be a 'new' tradition. ) Is nothing sacred anymore? Goop here. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesh Posted June 17, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 17, 2009 yesterday: some colleagues were pouring some goop from a plastic squeezy bottle onto their fresh, steaming fish and chips. When I checked out the bottle of goop the label said it was "Traditional Fish and Chip Shop Taste non-brewed condiment." (This must be a 'new' tradition. ) Is nothing sacred anymore? Goop here. Pete. After deep fried Mars bars and the like, can we be surprised about anything the yoof of today will consume? But we're getting off topic, and I'm anxiously awaiting the definitive answer...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted June 17, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 17, 2009 We all remember how manual metering works (at least some of us do…) - you did not have to switch the meter off to measure a different brightness level….. And as I mentioned in my previous post - my wife’s Canon G7 works just like it should when switched to manual. Surely, the G7’s meter is also getting its information from the sensor? In manual mode it displays a vertical metering bar with an index that moves up and down as light levels change or as exposure settings get adjusted. I would expect the yellow index of the Digilux 2 to move along the horizontal bar in the same manner….. I am still puzzled………. Jan It does. Scroll through the display settings (Pushing on the DISPLAY button) until you see the meter bar at the bottom. As you spin your aperture ring, the meter display will update in realtime. Is this what you mean? JT JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveleo Posted June 17, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 17, 2009 yes ... the display (in manual mode) WILL show the exposure scroll bar in "real time" (as John T says).... but you have to hold the shutter button 1/2 way down for about two seconds to get it to appear .... it does not appear unless you hold it down that long and then release it while you change aperture. also, the exposure scroll bar does not appear with the grid shown on the display.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted June 17, 2009 ..........also, the exposure scroll bar does not appear with the grid shown on the display.. Dave - thank you, thank you! Finally a response that does not relate to the culinary experiences of classic fish and chips an Big Mac eaters... I have to admit that I prefer fish and chips myself...... I have always used the Digilux 2 with the grid as it helps with composition and with keeping straight horizons. The metering bar will NOT STAY displayed with the grid and with the plain displays. In those two display modes, the bar appears after about a second of pushing the shutter release and disappears when one lets go of the release. Also, the yellow index will not move in 'real time' in those two modes. In all other modes, the metering bar will appear after about 1s of pushing the release, will stay on for 10 seconds and the yellow index will move in real time only after one lets go of the shutter release button.. Mystery solved - again, thanks to Dave! By the way, did anybody have a look at the pdf specification sheet of the fish and chip concoction? It is amazing what the EU bureaucrats come up with.... http://www.drywite.co.uk/datasheets/Technical%20Data%20Sheet%20-%20NBC.11.pdf Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveleo Posted June 17, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 17, 2009 oh yes .... one more thing .... sign me up for the fish and chips, heh ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.