borowiec Posted June 10, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I shot film I primarily used the 35 Summicron with occasional use of a 28 Elmarit. With the M8's sensor, my primary lens is now the 28 but I sometimes need something wider. I can't afford a Leitz 21, not even used, hnor a Zeiss, so it seems my best option is a Voigtlander 21. However, I'm not sure which one to get. I see that it comes in an M mount but am not sure whether it's possible to add 6-bit coding to that one. Or should I get the screw mount version and use a Milich LTM8 adapter? I see that Voigtlander also has a 21mm Pancake lens, though the information on Adorama's website is confusing: they list it as having a screw mount but in the description they say it's for use on M mount cameras. What's the difference between the Pancake lens and the regular Voigtlander Color-Skopar 21mm lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Hi borowiec, Take a look here Which Voigtlander 21mm lens for M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bo_Lorentzen Posted June 10, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 10, 2009 The newer lenses from Voigtlander have a grove for coding. Check out CameraQuest Home Page and call Stephen he is great to deal with, and would definitely be my first choice for picking up a voigtlander lens. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai.charlie Posted June 10, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 10, 2009 never heard of the 21mm "pancake" but the both CV 21mm lenses (the LTM and the M mount) are quite small. Very sharp lenses. Not sure about the coding issue (not sure where the mount screw is in the M mount CV 21). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted June 10, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 10, 2009 The CV 21 M Mount I have did not come with the new style mount that has a ring around it. Not sure it any of them will. That recessed ring on the newer CV M Mount lenses is really handy for coding. The 21 M Mount came out before CV started using the new mount. Now if you get a current production run lens it very well might have the new mount. But you'll be lucky to find one. I personally never liked the idea of adding another part to any lens so I have no experience with any screw mount lens. Never bought a 15mm for just that reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrh68uk Posted June 10, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 10, 2009 A new CV 21/4 will come with the grooved mount. I have had one for some months and it's relatively simple to code. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik_nik9 Posted June 10, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 10, 2009 I too have the M version with the recessed bayonet, very easy for self coding. Sean Reid's test of the LTM version and later the M version showed, that the M version somehow was sharper, although it's the same glass. Might be better quality on M version on production. However, that's the reason why I bought the M version instead of the LTM, although I like the LTM versions better because of their more compact build and lighter weight. I also prefer the LTM style knob, which makes focusing a joy. But I have to agree - my M version of the 21 mm is tack sharp! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted June 10, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do 21 users find an external finder necessary, or does imagining/checking seem to work ok? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted June 10, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 10, 2009 Do 21 users find an external finder necessary, or does imagining/checking seem to work ok? With a bit of practice, "guesstimating" the framelines becomes a 2nd nature. You need to use the whole viewfinder and rotate your eyes around it a bit. Not 100% accurate, but neither are external finders... Views may differ on this - I know Sean Reid recommends using an external finder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted June 10, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 10, 2009 Thanks, sounds doable to me. I have the original M8 framelines and everything is about 15% +/- anyways. With a bit of practice, "guesstimating" the framelines becomes a 2nd nature. You need to use the whole viewfinder and rotate your eyes around it a bit. Not 100% accurate, but neither are external finders... Views may differ on this - I know Sean Reid recommends using an external finder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
borowiec Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted June 10, 2009 Thanks everyone. I guess I can safely get a Voigtlander 21 in an M mount. I don't need a viewfinder as I have the metal one that came with my 28 Elmarit thirty years ago. But I still don't understand the difference between the regular 21mm Color-Skopar and the one that's labelled as a Pancake lens. I assume that Pancake lenses have a different formula, but which of the two is sharper, or what are the differences? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted June 11, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 11, 2009 I too have the M version with the recessed bayonet, very easy for self coding. Sean Reid's test of the LTM version and later the M version showed, that the M version somehow was sharper, although it's the same glass. Might be better quality on M version on production. However, that's the reason why I bought the M version instead of the LTM, although I like the LTM versions better because of their more compact build and lighter weight. I also prefer the LTM style knob, which makes focusing a joy. But I have to agree - my M version of the 21 mm is tack sharp! The optical design should be the same on both so those results may have come either from sample variation, tighter construction tolerances, etc. It's hard to say. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 13, 2010 Share #12 Posted January 13, 2010 Which 28mm finders are people using with the 21mm on the M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted January 13, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 13, 2010 I haven't sprung for one yet. I do need the 21 finder for the CV 15, but the 21 I frame with the whole finder and get just a bit more when checking framing on the screen. Which 28mm finders are people using with the 21mm on the M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 13, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 13, 2010 but the 21 I frame with the whole finder and get just a bit more when checking framing on the screen. I'm a glasses wearer, so I'd prefer to get the 28mm VF... plus, it should be a bit more accurate. I try not to crop generally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miklosphoto Posted January 13, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 13, 2010 Do 21 users find an external finder necessary, or does imagining/checking seem to work ok? Not on M8. The CV 21mm will bring up the 28mm framelines on M8 and the actual image will be pretty much identical to the full view of the viewfinder. I personally do not need an external viewfinder for the CV 21mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 14, 2010 Share #16 Posted January 14, 2010 The CV 21mm will bring up the 28mm framelines on M8 and the actual image will be pretty much identical to the full view of the viewfinder. Are you sure of this? I have not seen this mentioned anywhere. I find it weird since the CV 25mm brings up the 24mm framelines and those are the widest on the M8. Why would a wider lens bring up 28mm framelines? It would be great if this is true... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted January 14, 2010 Share #17 Posted January 14, 2010 I have the CV 21, and don't find the need for an external viewfinder. Also, I don't like to crop, but somehow the 21 just finds the right amount for good composition. Nice lens - not quite as crisp as the Leica. Did you also look at the Zeiss? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted January 14, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 14, 2010 The newer lenses from Voigtlander have a grove for coding. Check out CameraQuest Home Page and call Stephen he is great to deal with, and would definitely be my first choice for picking up a voigtlander lens. . Bo, you are too modest. Since you didn't do it, I will recommend your coding template, which I am assuming you still sell. I bought mine from you and have used it several times. Just tonight, in fact, I received an un-coded 35mm Summicron ASPH, and I just coded it, and it works perfectly thanks to you template. I highly recommend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted January 14, 2010 Share #19 Posted January 14, 2010 I've also found Bo's tool very useful for coding lenses. With the M8 (original/classic), the full frame is pretty close to a 21, but yes, an external 28 would probably be easier for glasses users. Here are some sample pics I took with my M8 and the CV 21/4 (I have the LTM version) framed using just the whole VF. None are cropped. here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 14, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 14, 2010 I have the CV 21, and don't find the need for an external viewfinder. Also, I don't like to crop, but somehow the 21 just finds the right amount for good composition. Nice lens - not quite as crisp as the Leica. Did you also look at the Zeiss? I'm a glasses wearer, so the 24mm frames in the M8 are already too wide with my 25mm VC. I would most definitely need a ext VF unfortunately. I don't think the VC 21mm brings up the 28mm framelines. From what I understand, it is the same mount as my 25mm and will bring up the 24mm / 35mm framelines. The 24mm M8 framelines are very accurate for the 25mm VC, especially up close. I didn't think about the Zeiss at all, since the VC is so cheap. If I was going to spend alot, I'd go for a 28mm or 35mm summicron, not a very wide angle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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