purple RD1 shot with M8

[B&W]

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I can't agreed more!

 

RAW is good but JPEGs should be of a high standard too. I can imagine many a photojournalists - the same pple who carry a DSLR for their work and a film Leica for leisure wlil appreciate a digital M they can use to complement their work, shooting JPEGs, and a digital M they can use for leisure, shooting RAW without pressures of deadlines.

 

Amen!

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[pascal_meheut]

No, I bought it in spring 2006 and could use it without problems (besides slight focusing issues) right away.

That's the reason. Because in July 2005, colors were horrible and a Canon Rebel XT/350D was much better.

At the time, I wrote to Leica too, they gave me interesting answers and the Raw conversion program profiles have improved. Except Adobe of course.

 

So wait for 6 months at least like you did for the DMR and you'll have perfect results out of the M8 too.

[msr]

Here is your image colour corrected.

It took me less than 1 second to make the correction.

I used a Photoshop plug-in named iCorrect EditLab by Pictographics.

The colour cast "problem" is an attribute of Raw files that is easily corrected. It is not a Leica problem and does not need custom profiles to resolve.

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[shonanmike]

What has been corrected? The strap and parts of the camera still exhibit a magenta cast which is clearly not how an average human eye perceives them.

[carstenw]

Pascal Meheut argues that the purple problem is due to the Capture One profile for the M8. He made his own profile that can be downloaded to correct the problem. See the following long thread:

M8 vs DMR, very different colors in Capture One. In this thread there are other interesting contributions on this subject. Consensus was that it is the fault of Capture one - which is easily corrected with a new profile - and has nothing to do with the M8 and IR sensitivity.

 

You can subtract a yellow which is everywhere, but you can't subtract a purple which is only in some places. Especially when some purples are really purple, and some blacks are really black, but some purples are black.

[lct]

...Epson uses different materials for different parts of their cameras. Under certain light our eyes may mistake them for the same colors, under other light they may appear quite different...

OK Howard but i've never seen such a colour cast so far.

Even a modest digicam like my Sony DSC-V1 can do much better.

There is a defect here, calling a cat a cat.

 

(Sony DSC-V1, incandescent light, auto WB)

[mwilliamsphotography]

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Sean, see my new thread posted this AM. I'm very interested in how this will get resolved,

and am open to any and all resolutions, be they user or manufacturer created, or both.

 

Never have faced this issue with any other Digital camera I've owned and shot with ... including Leica's own DMR, Nikons, Canons, Contax ND, Epson RD-1, Imacon and Leaf MF digital backs.

 

I do not have a degree from MIT, but I shoot A LOT of digital photographs and do understand some level of color management. This shouldn't be brain surgery.

 

Your help is much appreciated and invaluable ...

 

Keeping the faith ... cautiously.

[msr]

How's this? Two or three clicks in iCorrect EditLab.

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[clayh]

It is still not right. That foam pad is really blue, not purple. This is more than just a white balance problem. I've noticed the same problem with a lot of incandescent lighting when using the M8. White balance correction alone will not fix it.

[msr]

This blue?

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[sean_reid]

Pascal Meheut argues that the purple problem is due to the Capture One profile for the M8. He made his own profile that can be downloaded to correct the problem. See the following long thread:

M8 vs DMR, very different colors in Capture One. In this thread there are other interesting contributions on this subject. Consensus was that it is the fault of Capture one - which is easily corrected with a new profile - and has nothing to do with the M8 and IR sensitivity.

 

Hi Peter,

 

It's definitely related to IR sensitivity.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[msr]

Or this blue?

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[clayh]

If you open a second browser window and pull up the 1Ds MKII shot right next to the one above, the blue is closer, but the some of black dials are still tinged with purple and the wood still looks magenta. While it is certainly better, it is still not 'on the money'.

[hyper67]

The foam may be fixed but keep looking at the top shutter dial on the camera - it still has a magenta cast - UNUCCEPTABLE by any standards- Leica should stop shipping these cameras asap....unless they know they can fix it within the next week or so.....

[sean_reid]

Sean, see my new thread posted this AM. I'm very interested in how this will get resolved,

and am open to any and all resolutions, be they user or manufacturer created, or both.

 

Never have faced this issue with any other Digital camera I've owned and shot with ... including Leica's own DMR, Nikons, Canons, Contax ND, Epson RD-1, Imacon and Leaf MF digital backs.

 

I do not have a degree from MIT, but I shoot A LOT of digital photographs and do understand some level of color management. This shouldn't be brain surgery.

 

Your help is much appreciated and invaluable ...

 

Keeping the faith ... cautiously.

 

I am too. I'll be speaking with my friend later today to see what he thinks is possible in profiling. As Rex mentions, the profiles would need to be specific to different lighting conditions (which is, of course, what many of us do already with profiling other cameras) but I'm curious to see what's possible.

 

I had one other thought. What if C1 were to add a slider control called "IR comp." or something like that with which one could apply a variable amount of correction for the IR color cast, as needed by the photographer? I'm just thinking aloud.

 

One more thought: *If* the IR color cast has a consistent relationship to lighting color temperature, might it not be possible to profile in an IR color correction that would automatically be applied, to different degrees, according to the WB being used. Again, I'm just thinking aloud. If that was possible, however, it could potentially work for both RAW conversion (WB set in conversion) and in-camera JPEGs (WB set in-camera). I don't trust auto-WB in any camera for critical color rendering (except perhaps in daylight) but manually selected WB (in-camera) can be accurate.

 

BTW, for the people who seem to have a strange desire to blame reviewers for the M8's weaknesses, note the following. Reviewers had the chance to work with pre-production copies of the M8 this past summer (August in my case) specifically to assess the functional aspects of the camera (finder, body, controls, etc.). It was understood the file quality should not be considered final until we received the cameras with final firmware (this is standard practice for pre-production/beta testing). By definition, the cameras that reviewers received (for file quality assessment) were already using the production level firmware that ships with the camera. I hope that clarification of the facts quiets some of the conspiracy theorists who have taken to blaming reviewers for the M8's weaknesses. It's a ridiculous assertion.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[hyper67]

These are all great input ideas, but still temporary, like the shot shown above what if in certain sitauations were all other colors are rendered perfect and you can't remember if the the actual color of the "problematic" item is actually black or purple? I don't think that I want to walk around shooting and trying to remember if the guy on the street was wearing a black coat or a purple one!

[msr]

If you open a second browser window and pull up the 1Ds MKII shot right next to the one above, the blue is closer, but the some of black dials are still tinged with purple and the wood still looks magenta. While it is certainly better, it is still not 'on the money'.

 

It could be a saturation issue. I slightly desaturated the wood tones.

I must admit this has been a fair bit of tweaking. I'd like to play with some of the in-camera parameters to see what differences they make.

This all from me this morning. I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go.

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[alexr]

Leica must stop delivery now. This is no joke and someone like yours truly who is ordered this product to use for work and not for fun CANNOT spend his-her mornings converting black coats which have turned magenta back into black, whilst desaturating t'shirts and changing color of scarves...just to get a decent image which THEN will requre the normal post processing. I read the statement by Leica and never felt so insulted. WB works great on my D2 and on most 200$ digicams. I expect it to work in a 5000$ M8. if it does not, bring your cameras back to Germany, Leica, and come back to us when you can sell a product that works. I find it a disgrace that a manufacturer would "use" its very best customers (ie those like us who put down money in advance) as paying (not paid!) beta testers. Leica did not know about the problem? Well if so the conclusions are

a) their engineers-quality control people are not worth their salaries

they bloody well should know about it now so instead of giving us that pathetic statement they should recall all cameras and work on them till they fix it, and fix it good.

 

Hey, this is a 5000$ (supposedly professional) product. Its release in current form is just unacceptable.

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[pascal_meheut]

It's definitely related to IR sensitivity.

 

It may be indeed if the light from the halogen has more IR than the one from the Sun.

However, whatever the cause is, it can be fixed by a custom profile when the cast is not that important.

But when blacks turns purple, this is another ballgame.

[innerimager]

It may be indeed if the light from the halogen has more IR than the one from the Sun.

However, whatever the cause is, it can be fixed by a custom profile when the cast is not that important.

But when blacks turns purple, this is another ballgame.

Pascal- This is closer to my understanding. A severe IR related pushing of black to purple is unlikely to be fixed by a profile, at least one that would work for any other even similar subject with only slight differences in IR in the light. My guess is that they'll have to put a stronger IR blocker on the sensor. If they do, early adopters may want to keep there original one as an IR camera!.....Peter