John Maio Posted November 7, 2006 Share #61 Posted November 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) John--You've broken the cardinal rule of the Leica forum: Don't post good, crisp, excellent images from the M8. Post only those that show streaking or green blobs or clear and utter defects. Otherwise the moderators will have to pull the plug on your posts. Seriously--good shot and proof of the pudding! --HC Gee, HC, I asked my three Amigos here if it was OK, and they said go for it! Of course they all could have been Canon operatives, but they seemed so genuine :D Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8689-update-from-leica-m8/?do=findComment&comment=86729'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Hi John Maio, Take a look here Update from Leica-M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 7, 2006 Share #62 Posted November 7, 2006 Now that looks like a DMR image with the shadow detail and holding those highlights. Okay i am getting excited Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share #63 Posted November 7, 2006 John, thanks for posting.......good for the soul;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted November 7, 2006 Share #64 Posted November 7, 2006 Is that a band running through the top of the middle guy's hat? Oh, no, I guess it's just curbing. Whew! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maio Posted November 7, 2006 Share #65 Posted November 7, 2006 John, thanks for posting.......good for the soul;) Yes - it was actually this man that convinced me . . . He decided to wait for perfection and look how forlorn he looks - he hopes he can sell enough beads to get his M8 some time in 2007 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8689-update-from-leica-m8/?do=findComment&comment=86744'>More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted November 7, 2006 Share #66 Posted November 7, 2006 I posted elsewhere that I have spoken to Leica "on the record" and they are aware of the light-streaking concerns and are trying to see if they can be addressed with a firmware change. Sean Mine arrived last night and battery is charging up as I type. First real chance to use it is this weekend and can't wait. Can already say, beautifully built camera -- hard to really appreciate until you actually hold one in hand. Great service from PopFlash by the way. And this thread is great to read. Level heads and good spirits. As are those threads showing the wonderful images coming out of this camera already -- including Sean's and Michael's reviews. And I'd much rather a company like Leica that has all hands on deck trying to figure out the problems that do exist and talking straight to anyone who calls, than a company that would have had all hands working in the publicity department to craft the perfect press release and woudn't dream of talking to just anyone. The shareholders may get upset, but as a user of their equipment, hats off to them for having put their priorities in the right spot -- almost as old fashioned (in a good way) as the M8 itself. Craftsmen/engineers out trying to figure out what's up and find the answer. no excuses, no wasted motion. Who would have thought that still existed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 7, 2006 Share #67 Posted November 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Damn just got burned We regret to inform you that due to a system error the ordered merchandise is not in stock. We apologize for this inconvenience. You may leave your order active and we will ship your order as soon as the products become available, or you may cancel the order and receive a full refund. If you wish to cancel your order or to be updated on the status of your order, please call us at 800-221-5743/212-239-7765 or send an e-mail to Customer Service ord-status@bhphotovideo.com <mailto:ord-status@bhphotovideo.com?subject=1005560542> with your order number (see above). We regret this inconvenience and look forward to serving you in the future. Thank you B&H Customer Service Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osera Posted November 7, 2006 Share #68 Posted November 7, 2006 ...a system error... Ouch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 7, 2006 Share #69 Posted November 7, 2006 Sorry to hear that. Several people on the dpreview Leica forum have ordered, gotten confirmation, before the B&H supply ran dry about three hours ago. And others were too late. Kinda takes your breath away. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 7, 2006 Share #70 Posted November 7, 2006 yea have to wait for the shipping e-mail to be sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbeer Posted November 7, 2006 Share #71 Posted November 7, 2006 @guy So looking for them to admit guilt or fault will never happen with leica or anyone for hat matter. There is a famous company in Stuttgart who did the exact opposite. This is now universally considered as having been a very smart move. I do not own an M8 (yet) but I find the attitude of Leica so far as quite surprising. due to a system error Ah, not only Leica.....LOL @rex At the end of the day, the way people react to problems is more a reflection on people than hardware. No, it is mostly a reflection on the sellers attitude. In the case of Leica, I think the expectations were set by Leica. Just look at their brochures... @jeff Our standards have been so thoroughly debased Again, just read the litterature published by Leica. And given the history of the company, I think buyers are justified to set their expectations well above the average. Sorry, I dont want to bash Leica unnecessarily, but I am truly surprised by what I am reading here. I think you (and mostly the pros among you) are an extremely patient bunch of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 7, 2006 Share #72 Posted November 7, 2006 John Maio: from right next door to the "Old Broad"... Sony R1, alas (my 10Mpixel substitute and RAW professor for the past year while awaiting the M8) - but ABQ Old Town is definitely one of the first places I'll travel to to try out the M8 once it arrives. ClayH: I would have thought simply trying to find a Leica-M-mount 300mm or 15mm fisheye would have been the tip-off that the M8 is not as capable as a Canon 5D, even at 1.5x the price. But I know what you mean - WITHIN the limitations of a rangefinder... I do think Leica will get it sorted out, whatever the technical cause. And I certainly hope so, because I'm also hoping the M8 will let me back in to low-light documentary work of the kind that small sensors, grainy films, and slow digicam zooms have denied me for the past 10 years or so. Right where the banding is the biggest headache. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8689-update-from-leica-m8/?do=findComment&comment=86815'>More sharing options...
harmsr Posted November 7, 2006 Share #73 Posted November 7, 2006 I had sent an email about the banding/streaking, magenta cast, and auto WB issues which my camera also exhibited to my local Leica rep. on Sunday. She responded on Sunday and forwarded this to Leica USA. I talked with David at Leica USA, and he had received the email. He does not have any news yet, but assured me that Leica Germany is working urgently towards a solution for all of us. We discussed the magenta cast and auto WB issues as most likely the IR filter, C1 profile, and firmware. Although he has no official position from Leica Germany, except they are aware of the issue and working on it with priority. Relative to the banding/streaking issue, I expressed concern on keeping the camera as I take many low light shots that do often have bright lights in the frame. He does not know what they are going to change or the timing, but did state Leica would resolve the issue with software or hardware as needed and as quickly as possilble. I guess that I'll be patient for a few days and see where this all goes. The banding has to get fixed as it is too easy to induce in night or indoor shots, and that is a deal breaker for me. Since Guy didn't get his camera from B&H, we will try to hook up tomorrow with my M8. I'm interested to see what he can do on the post processing for the magenta & WB issues, along with us taking some more real world shots with banding or not. So far I can correct the magenta & WB in C1, but my D200 is much better at this stage. Best, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayh Posted November 7, 2006 Share #74 Posted November 7, 2006 Well, as I guessed you figured out from the post, I meant strictly its ability to record a scene without adding it's own little 'art' to the raw file. FWIW, I finally got through to Leica USA and talked to their repair person. He is just as in the dark as we are about what Solms is planning to do to address the problem. He did assure me that the two year warranty would cover 'defects in workmanship' and that the fact that the camera does not function in some lighting scenarios would put them on the hook to make it right. ClayH: I would have thought simply trying to find a Leica-M-mount 300mm or 15mm fisheye would have been the tip-off that the M8 is not as capable as a Canon 5D, even at 1.5x the price.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egpj Posted November 8, 2006 Share #75 Posted November 8, 2006 From my own personal experience with Kodak sensors this problem was pretty common in every Kodak/Roper camera we had. I used a custom made aerial mapping camera that had 4 Kodak cameras or the Roper Scientific camera (which was the same thing with the same parts just rebranded). They all had the Kodak sensor although different size. Looking at the examples of the banding problem it was deja vu. As I remember the sensors were not designed for the high light level we encountered when catching sun reflections in water bodies on the ground. As far as I know you can't solve this type of problem with a software fix in the camera and I would appreciate it if someone else knows how this particular type of problem can be over come with software. Specifically when the pixel wells are filled and the anti-blooming knee that is built into the well can not handle the overload then it automatically passes the charge off to the adjacent pixel as it makes it's way to the side of the CCD. Hence the line of washed out pixels going to the edge of the CCD. Can someone more knowledgeable about this sort of thing comment about this and explain how software will change this? Glenn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 8, 2006 Share #76 Posted November 8, 2006 The Merry Go Round continues , i will have one in 2 days. Been a little frustrating with B&H . I had 2 and lost 2. Screwed up system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted November 8, 2006 Share #77 Posted November 8, 2006 The Merry Go Round continues , i will have one in 2 days. Been a little frustrating with B&H . I had 2 and lost 2. Screwed up system Guy, any news yet ? it becomes a bit like Peyton Place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 8, 2006 Share #78 Posted November 8, 2006 Can someone more knowledgeable about this sort of thing comment about this and explain how software will change this? Glenn Because it might be a timing issue when reading the CCD. And the timer is programmable by firmware. Read here: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/8817-possible-explanation-banding-problem.html However, we do not know for sure what the problem really is and how Leica will solve it. We just have to wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted November 8, 2006 Share #79 Posted November 8, 2006 Because it might be a timing issue when reading the CCD. And the timer is programmable by firmware. Read here: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/8817-possible-explanation-banding-problem.html However, we do not know for sure what the problem really is and how Leica will solve it. We just have to wait. Pascal I noticed that that thread has kinda died out on the LUG forum which is probably a good thing to give the Leica software engineers some time to work on the problem. But I have looked at hundreds of shots (the vast majority with no problem) and can completely predict just what and when the artifacts will rear their ugly head. Folks on the LUG were making some real strides at identifing if not the cause of the problem at least the symptoms. I hate to bump the thread because of the reasons mentioned above. But since you were on of the first to notice the problem, I'm just calling your attention to the fact that Leica hasn't had much to say since Monday AM. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 8, 2006 Share #80 Posted November 8, 2006 I agree. I think the thread should have been: "I think there is a problem, can you reproduce it" "tell us more, we'll try. Ok, yes we can" "let's tell Leica" "Ok Leica recognize the problem and is working on it. Let's wait" And then some silence. But of course, launching new threads about the same problem without reading the previous one, pointing fingers at reviewers, explaining that Leica knew the problem but did nothing is much more fun. Also, what would people who never tested a camera did not detect the problems and did not talk to Leica about it would have to say ? Nothing. That's clearly unacceptable so they explain to those who did what really happened Nothing new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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