kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is a fact that the problem with any precision mechanical devise is not the intolerance's of the machined parts but the interface, the lubrication used to ensure the trouble free running, be-it a fine Swiss wristwatch of a high quality camera. The master watchmaker Abraham-Louis Breguet is credited as saying, over 200 years ago, You give me the perfect oil and I will give you the perfect watch movement The problem which Breguet identified all those years ago is the the viscosity of oil changes as it ages. This is why wristwatches and cameras have to be returned for service basically they are cleaned adjusted and given fresh oil. It was left to another master watchmaker in Switzerland, this time Jaeger Lecoultre who addressed the age old problem a couple of years ago buy producing a lubrication free movement made entirely of high tech ceramic parts. This got me thinking. If this can be carried out on a wristwatch why can't it be carried out on a camera so as we would not need to return our cameras to be CLA'D- Cleaned- Lubricated and Adjusted. Leica could initially introduce it to thier current range and if successful could roll it out as an upgrade for customers with M7 M6 who know where it could lead. It could be a substantial money earner for Leica and a very useful option to thier customers- remember you heard it here first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Hi kenneth, Take a look here The Achilles heel of camera and watches?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Sandokan Posted May 23, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 23, 2009 Good idea Ken - apart from have you seen the price of Jäger watches? Multiply that up to the number and scale of a camera and present day Leicas will look cheap - IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 23, 2009 Share #3 Posted May 23, 2009 Leica could initially introduce it to thier current range and if successful could roll it out as an upgrade for customers with M7 M6 who knows where it could lead? It could be a substantial money earner for Leica and a very useful option to their customers- remember you heard it here first To insolvency, bankruptcy and ruin would be my guess. There's much less of the "L" element in a (current) camera CLA than there used to be; watch lovers may hanker after the traditional mechanics but most camera users seem content with the improved accuracy and consistency electronics now provides. I hardly think Leica are going to offer retofits for the M6 as this stage in the proceedings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 23, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 23, 2009 Kenneth, this German watch may interest you:. Damasko - feiner Uhrenbau Technology, it appears, even for mechanical items, is not standing still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 23, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 23, 2009 This begs another question - why would any manufacturer make something that lasted for ever, didn't wear out, or need a service once in a while? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted May 23, 2009 Good idea Ken - apart from have you seen the price of Jäger watches? Multiply that up to the number and scale of a camera and present day Leicas will look cheap - IMO. I have, I own one, a Reverso Grand Taille which is back with JLC at present to sort out erratic time keeping. This model is not one of thier ceramic models though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted May 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kenneth, this German watch may interest you:. Damasko - feiner Uhrenbau Technology, it appears, even for mechanical items, is not standing still. Thank you David, I must admit I was not aware of the make but with two watches already I think my wife would quite rightly go berserk if I buy any more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 23, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 23, 2009 Especially if neither of them keep good time, despite their cost Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted May 23, 2009 This begs another question - why would any manufacturer make something that lasted for ever, didn't wear out, or need a service once in a while? Can't answer that one Andy you would have to as Jaeger Lecoultre about thier marketing and production strategies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 23, 2009 Share #10 Posted May 23, 2009 I'm visting Lange and Soehne in September, not with a view to buying but simply out of interest and an opportunity which presents itself. Seems that their "cooking" model would comfotably buy an S2 and at least one lens. LANGE 1: the history of the watch ? A. Lange & Söhne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted May 23, 2009 Especially if neither of them keep good time, despite their cost Interestingly my remaining watch keeps time to + or- 5 seconds paced against a radio controlled clock which I find pretty good. I feel sure that when my JLC comes back it will perform nearly as well but maybe not quite as JLC Reverso models are not certified chronometers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted May 23, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 23, 2009 Anyone got a Graham Tourbillograph? Buy British ! Anyway, this is one thing i dont get. I love old mechanical cameras as I can feel the difference to a modern electronic one, but I do not get the point of chronographs which try to be as accurate as a quartz watch? Most of the people I know have Swiss chronographs, which they are very proud of the mechanical nature of, whereas my preferred choice is a digital quartz Tag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 23, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 23, 2009 My Nokia phone keeps perfect time, I have it with me all times and I don't see the point in wearing an expensive piece of jewellery. If you buy a Leica because you want to use Leica lenses, because you feel they are technically the best at what they do, why would you bother with a troublesome unreliable inefficient piece of jewellery to wear on your wrist which will give you an approximate time at best? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted May 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted May 23, 2009 The master watchmaker Abraham-Louis Breguet is credited as saying, over 200 years ago, You give me the perfect oil and I will give you the perfect watch movement The problem which Breguet identified all those years ago is the the viscosity of oil changes as it ages. This is why wristwatches and cameras have to be returned for service basically they are cleaned adjusted and given fresh oil. I dont think Breguet was anywhere near the first to identify this problem it was well know to seventeenth century clockmakers and probably even earlier. Why do you think John Harrison's wooden clocks run without oil for years and that there is no oil in his famous sea clocks H1 etc? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted May 23, 2009 Share #15 Posted May 23, 2009 Why do you think John Harrison's wooden clocks run without oil for years and that there is no oil in his famous sea clocks H1 etc? Whenever I go to the NMM I can't decide whether to be sad that H1, H2 and H3 proved a blind alley, or cross with Harrison for not realising as much half-way through building H1 and cutting straight to the super-watch design with which he succeeded (and which needed oil). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted May 23, 2009 Share #16 Posted May 23, 2009 They weren't a complete blind alley, they were steps in achieving the goal he set himself. During the last few weeks H1 has been in the workshop for repair because a balance spring attachment point broke. During that time the sea clock was completely dismantled, measured and photographed. I was asked to photograph it (used my Canon not my Leica I'm afraid). I spent 5 whole days there and took over 3000 shots. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted May 23, 2009 Share #17 Posted May 23, 2009 My Nokia phone keeps perfect time, I have it with me all times and I don't see the point in wearing an expensive piece of jewellery. If you buy a Leica because you want to use Leica lenses, because you feel they are technically the best at what they do, why would you bother with a troublesome unreliable inefficient piece of jewellery to wear on your wrist which will give you an approximate time at best? Only an idiot could argue with your response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted May 23, 2009 Anyone got a Graham Tourbillograph? Buy British ! Anyway, this is one thing i dont get. I love old mechanical cameras as I can feel the difference to a modern electronic one, but I do not get the point of chronographs which try to be as accurate as a quartz watch? Most of the people I know have Swiss chronographs, which they are very proud of the mechanical nature of, whereas my preferred choice is a digital quartz Tag. Who said anything about chronographs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted May 23, 2009 Only an idiot could argue with your response.Quite right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted May 23, 2009 Share #20 Posted May 23, 2009 Troll alert. Goodbye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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