andybarton Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share #141 Posted June 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Stefan Daniel didn't say 10,000 per year He said "10,000" Big difference... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Hi andybarton, Take a look here S2 to be shown in Paris 06/06. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Overgaard Posted June 15, 2009 Share #142 Posted June 15, 2009 Though I haven't had it in my hands yet, I just sense a silky-smooth camera that allow you and easy and uncomplicated to take great shots with Leica fingerprint on the way the light is handled, in huge files. And that the balance and handling will be extremely natural. If that is the case, it will be irresistible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 15, 2009 Share #143 Posted June 15, 2009 Stefan Daniel didn't say 10,000 per year He said "10,000" Big difference... Okay, but does the S2 have a 5-10 year life span of salability? The way the digital camera market works, Leica had better hope they sell those 10K in at least the first three years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share #144 Posted June 15, 2009 Okay, but does the S2 have a 5-10 year life span of salability? I have absolutely no idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephengilbert Posted June 15, 2009 Share #145 Posted June 15, 2009 I think if the S2 is irresistible, it will be hard to resist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 15, 2009 Share #146 Posted June 15, 2009 I have held the S2 non-working prototype / model in my hands, and it *is* pretty much a perfect form factor. A little less bulky and a lot easier to hold than my D3. The lenses will balance nicely too, from what I could tell from the prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 15, 2009 Share #147 Posted June 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have held the S2 non-working prototype / model in my hands, and it *is* pretty much a perfect form factor. A little less bulky and a lot easier to hold than my D3. The lenses will balance nicely too, from what I could tell from the prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted June 16, 2009 Share #148 Posted June 16, 2009 I have held the S2 non-working prototype / model in my hands, and it *is* pretty much a perfect form factor. A little less bulky and a lot easier to hold than my D3. The lenses will balance nicely too, from what I could tell from the prototype. does your comparism between the D3 and the S2 take the portait mode grip (on the S2) into account? peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted June 16, 2009 Share #149 Posted June 16, 2009 I find it very tough to believe there's a market for 10,000 S2's a year. If they sold that many at, say, €10,000 a shot ex factory, they would nearly double Leica Camera's entire sales revenue and that's on bodies alone, before you include lenses and accessories. I think they will do well to sell 1000-2000 cameras in the first year, equivalent to a production rate of about 10/day. Stefan Daniel didn't say 10,000 per year He said "10,000" Big difference... I tend to agree with Andy, Mark. Probably more like 10,000 total, 5-7yrs production perhaps? I'm sure they'd love to sell 10K units per year but I agree, I can't see that happening in the current economic climate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted June 16, 2009 Share #150 Posted June 16, 2009 Until they price the S2 there is no way to even guess what the market will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmoore Posted June 16, 2009 Share #151 Posted June 16, 2009 what is the thinking on when they will release a price? this week? first full moon of summer? a month before shipping? a week? the day they are ready to ship? surely they have this all mapped out on a timeline...but I think it is awkward to be open about a future product, its specs, show proto's around, announce a release "season", but not provide a cost for the potential customers to budget. I wonder if Leica is in the same boat with us and Kodak told them, " here is this new sensor for your S2..but we will wait til shipping it to tell you the cost..cause, you know, the market changes.." ..somehow I don't think this is how it worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted June 16, 2009 Share #152 Posted June 16, 2009 what is the thinking on when they will release a price? this week? first full moon of summer? a month before shipping? a week? the day they are ready to ship?surely they have this all mapped out on a timeline...but I think it is awkward to be open about a future product, its specs, show proto's around, announce a release "season", but not provide a cost for the potential customers to budget. I wonder if Leica is in the same boat with us and Kodak told them, " here is this new sensor for your S2..but we will wait til shipping it to tell you the cost..cause, you know, the market changes.." ..somehow I don't think this is how it worked. I was told the reasoning behind this is that Leica wants to be as competitive as possible at the time of introduction. They don't want to give their competition any opportunity to try to react with regards to pricing. Such is the last minute pricing routine. It only works if you can wait till the last minute. I agree, though, we need some firm pricing from Leica. My hope is that we will see something by next month. Just a hope, of course. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmoore Posted June 16, 2009 Share #153 Posted June 16, 2009 I was told the reasoning behind this is that Leica wants to be as competitive as possible at the time of introduction. They don't want to give their competition any opportunity to try to react with regards to pricing. Such is the last minute pricing routine. It only works if you can wait till the last minute. I agree, though, we need some firm pricing from Leica. My hope is that we will see something by next month. Just a hope, of course. David thanks david, I too can hope..but given the last couple of years we have been through, I think I have had my fill of "hope" & "change". I guess they will let us know when they want to start collecting the cash.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 16, 2009 Share #154 Posted June 16, 2009 does your comparism between the D3 and the S2 take the portait mode grip (on the S2) into account? peter I don't honestly remember, Peter, and it was just an early prototype, so I don't even remember if it had a portrait mode grip or not. I do remember being completely and totally amazed at the form factor. The S2 is a lot "smaller-feeling" in your hands than any MF system I'd ever held, and a lot more comfortable to hold than any dSLR I've had to date (including a lot of Canons and the D3, which IMO is better than all the Canons)--horizontally at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted June 16, 2009 Share #155 Posted June 16, 2009 I don't honestly remember, Peter, and it was just an early prototype, so I don't even remember if it had a portrait mode grip or not. I do remember being completely and totally amazed at the form factor. The S2 is a lot "smaller-feeling" in your hands than any MF system I'd ever held, and a lot more comfortable to hold than any dSLR I've had to date (including a lot of Canons and the D3, which IMO is better than all the Canons)--horizontally at least. jamie, i bet it was without the grip....---)))) a fair comarism sizewise then would be with D700. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oronet commander Posted June 16, 2009 Share #156 Posted June 16, 2009 Kubrick had a lens specially made for "Barry Lyndon" IIRC, it was a f0.9 Anything is possible if you are prepared to pay enough money In fact, it was a f0.7 From the Wikipedia: Kubrick was "determined not to reproduce the set-bound, artificially lit look of other costume dramas from that time."[2] After "tinker[ing] with different combinations of lenses and film stock," the production got hold of three "super-fast 50mm" f/0.70 lenses "developed by Zeiss for use by NASA in the Apollo moon landings," which Kubrick had discovered in his search for low-light solutions.[2] These super-fast lenses "[w]ith their huge aperture [the film actually features the largest lens aperture in film history] and fixed focal length" were problematic to mount[2], but allowed Kubrick and Alcott to shoot scenes lit with actual candles to an average lighting volume of only three candlepower, "recreating the huddle and glow of a pre-electrical age."[2] In addition, "the actors... were under instruction to move as slowly as possible to avoid underexposure." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 16, 2009 Share #157 Posted June 16, 2009 Se that 0.7 was for stills or actually used on the film camera..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 16, 2009 Share #158 Posted June 16, 2009 Until they price the S2 there is no way to even guess what the market will be. Exactly. And then there's the possibility they make trade-in campaigns and/or financing. Considering the times that might be a good idea to offer low-cost financing. I don't know how big that is for Apple in the US (here around it's not happening a lot). Could be key to fast expansion in the Pro market. I know Martin light in Denmark grew VERY big by financing their light equipment to discos and who else bought it. To a degree so they were close to bankruptcy. But they did it, they survived and is the leading manufacturer in the world today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 16, 2009 Share #159 Posted June 16, 2009 Exactly. And then there's the possibility they make trade-in campaigns and/or financing. Considering the times that might be a good idea to offer low-cost financing. I don't know how big that is for Apple in the US (here around it's not happening a lot). Could be key to fast expansion in the Pro market. I know Martin light in Denmark grew VERY big by financing their light equipment to discos and who else bought it. To a degree so they were close to bankruptcy. But they did it, they survived and is the leading manufacturer in the world today. One thing Leica could try is "lease to own" at least in US/Canada, anyone who does accounting for himself/herself should know how this works. Many pro dealers here will take care of this. Or trade in at the end of lease in exchange for a S3. Busting your credit card or line of credit for a camera simply won't make any sense in any case. People who buys camera for fun should always pay in cash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmoore Posted June 17, 2009 Share #160 Posted June 17, 2009 Se that 0.7 was for stills or actually used on the film camera..? motion!!..dig up an old issue of "american cinematographer" or go here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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