Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 14, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) After recently spending a fortnight in Botswana I have now completed a set of pictures of the Wild Beast of Botswana. Of the 110 photographs in this series 95 were taken with the D300 and the wonderful 70-200/f2.8-VR lens and the remaining 15 (mainly landscapes) were taken with the Leica M8. The idea behind the Wild Beast of Botswana series is to depict the harshness and the stress, on both predators and prey, of the environment in which these animals live, including human encroachment, poaching and hunting in some areas, prolonged seasonal drought, and interaction with cattle and ranchers. For this purpose I prefer expressive B&W prints to color prints and am concerned primarily with the how best to express the essence of the animal and the feeling of place rather than "accuracy" of a color photograph or the "exactness" of the tones of a B&W one. You can see a flickr slide show of this series, all processed using Aperture and Silver Efex, by clicking here. I have had my M8.2 for about four months now and the experience of two weeks in Botswana highlighted some of the points I raised when I started a thread here after using the camera for two weeks. Although I like the M8 and am not really comparing it to the D300, which I use for a different purposes, some consideration of the differences is nevertheless useful. Off-on switch As many others have mentioned here this switch is not designed well: often when I took the M8 out of my camera bag I found that the switch had been turned on, something that never happened with the better-designed D300 switch. Dust on sensor In Botswana one is often driving on dusty tracks or off-road. In this environment I was surprised by how well this "sensor shake" method of the D300 performed because it shook the dust loose from the sensor each time and I never had to use the Arctic Butterfly that I brought along. I must say that it would be nice if the M8 had this sensor shake cleaning facility. Metering system I realize that one cannot really compare the D300 state of the art matrix metering system to the rather primitive meter in the M8. But I have to say that on the D300 using the matrix metering system or the 75/25 center-weighted metering system when there was strong backlight I would have as little as 1 out of 200 missed exposures. In fact, as I was photographing most of the time with the D300 and only occasionally switching to the M8, I found metering on the latter was somewhat of an annoyance as, each time, I had to, obviously, point the M8 somewhat down from the sky and hold the exposure while bringing the camera back up to frame the shot. In a situation in which one is somewhat rushed in doing this, and in comparison of the overwhelming convenience of Nikon matrix metering, one is left wishing that the M8, in future versions, would also have a modern, effective matrix metering system. Since being back in Bangkok I haven't yet had a chance to do any street photography, which in the bright light here leads to widely different exposure conditions depending on which part of the street one points the camera, for which Auto-ISO can be useful and for which a modern matrix metering system would also be extremely helpful. Lens identification We had an extensive discussion here on this matter when I posted an online petition to Leica asking them to institute in the M8 firmware lens identification along the lines of what Nikon has on its high-end cameras, involving, in the case of Nikon, entering for each non-AF lens the focal length and maximum aperture into one of nine banks, numbered 1-9, which can then be selected when the relevant lens is put on the camera. There was much objection here to this proposal, which had been discussed previously as well, with many people arguing that they did not want to "go into menus when changing a lens." But that objection only would be valid or users who have all their lenses coded and have UV/IR filters for all of them, which I doubt is the case of most users. I would think that most users would be in a situation similar to mine in Botswana and might not have all their lenses coded or might not have all the relevant UV/IR filters: in Botswana I had three coded lenses but had a UV/IR filter for only one of them, not having been able to locate the correct-sized filters for the other two. In this situation, I had to remember each time I changed a lens to go into the lens identification menu and set lens identification to either "UV/IR" or to "ON." Needless to say, I forgot to do this at least half the time, as I was, in addition, switching between the M8 and the D300. If the M8 had the facility for software with user-eneterd lens identification I would have been able to do this correctly most of the time, as I would know that each time I changed a lens I would have to select it in the menu. That is not to speak of the huge inconvenience, and impossibility for users in countries such as Thailand to get their lenses coded because of the time involved and the difficulties if dealing with Customs when the camera is returned, but this we have already discussed. —Mitch/Bangkok Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Hi Guest malland, Take a look here M8 and the "Wild Beasts of Botswana". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andreas_thomsen Posted May 14, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 14, 2009 why do you write about the M8 when the Nikon is the perfect match for you? cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted May 14, 2009 Share #3 Posted May 14, 2009 Mitch - great stuff - way to go. I love the M8.2 but the metering is strictly straight metering ala a handheld lightmeter. IF the scene happens to be about 18% grey - you're good. Otherwise you need to adjust. I've found manual mode to be most useful. Manual plus a bit of chimping works great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 14, 2009 why do you write about the M8 when the Nikon is the perfect match for you?cheers andy Andreas, the D300 is the perfect match for me for the type of long telephoto lens that one needs for game photography; it is not the perfect match for street photography, which is what I mainly do, as you can see at the link under my signature. —Mitch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria©: Book Project - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 14, 2009 Mitch - great stuff - way to go. I love the M8.2 but the metering is strictly straight metering ala a handheld lightmeter. IF the scene happens to be about 18% grey - you're good. Otherwise you need to adjust. I've found manual mode to be most useful. Manual plus a bit of chimping works great.John, thanks. Yes, I'm used to the metering from the M6, but when switching back and forth between the D300 and the M8 one gets to wish that the M8 had a more modern metering system. It seems to me that people here are divided in their views between those who want the M8 to be just like the M6 and those, like me, who feel that, once you're using a digital camera, it should have some more modern digital features. —Mitch/Bangkok Wiang Pa Pao Pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuth Posted May 14, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 14, 2009 That is not to speak of the huge inconvenience, and impossibility for users in countries such as Thailand to get their lenses coded because of the time involved and the difficulties if dealing with Customs when the camera is returned, but this we have already discussed. —Mitch/Bangkok Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream Sawaddee Mitch, I'm living in Krungthep too, and I have all my lenses coded by J Millich without having to deal with Customs. I just sent him relevant lens flanges, and coded them upon their return. Just unscrew those tiny screws in order to remove flanges, mail them to JM and then wait for him to finish is part. The coding works beautifully, and overall cost is relatively cheaper too I might add. During the two-week wait, you can fall deeper in love with your D300. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted May 14, 2009 Share #7 Posted May 14, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess we all have our own drums to beat - mine (currently) being the bit-depth compression thing. However, I'm well aware that others are sick-to-death hearing me banging that particular drum, so I desist now and then. Nice safari pictures - though I'd have difficulty discerning the subtext if you hadn't explained it here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 14, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 14, 2009 Nice, Safari pictures in B&W. It gives a bit of a fifties feel, and sets them apart from the usual touristy images, hard enough to do, as the circumstances in which they are captured are the same for all levels of photographer. Well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted May 14, 2009 Share #9 Posted May 14, 2009 Dust on sensor .... I must say that it would be nice if the M8 had this sensor shake cleaning facility. Oh yes. Metering system.... switching to the M8, I found metering on the latter was somewhat of an annoyance as, each time, I had to, obviously, point the M8 somewhat down from the sky and hold the exposure while bringing the camera back up to frame the shot. .... one is left wishing that the M8, in future versions, would also have a modern, effective matrix metering system..... Mitch - I too think the M8 metering is poor; poorer than the cheapest Nikon DSLR. However, abandoning M8 auto metering and switching to manual metering will, I am certain, be far better for you. Outdoors, I exclusively meter highlights [usually sky] with a +1 2/3 exposure compensation, and throw in experience tweaks when necessary [in practice usually hardly more than 1/3 of a stop on the shutter speed dial]. I rarely don't have an optimal 'to the right' histogram on my first shot with this method, whereas mid-grey manual metering [which I have otherwise been good at for decades], and my trial with auto metering, both drove me nuts trying to get optimal histograms on first exposure. Try highlight metering. ............... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 14, 2009 Share #10 Posted May 14, 2009 Very nice gallery, Mitch. I also enjoyed seeing and reading about some of your work on Sean Reid's site. BTW, is there a more perfect living bw subject than the zebra? Almost an animated resolution chart. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #11 Posted May 14, 2009 Nice, Safari pictures in B&W. It gives a bit of a fifties feel, and sets them apart from the usual touristy images, hard enough to do, as the circumstances in which they are captured are the same for all levels of photographer. Well done.Jaap, thanks for the kind words. However, I don't see these pictures as being 1950-ish but feel they have a somewhat more contemporary sensibility: indeed, I view these pictures as the equivalent in approach of my street photography — "street photography in the bush" shall we say? Actually, many of these pictures wouldn't have been possible without the excellent VR of the Nikkor lens that I used. —Mitch/Bangkok Chiang Mai Pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 14, 2009 plasticman and Jeff, thanks for the kind words on the pictures. —Mitch/Bangkok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 14, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 14, 2009 Metering system I realize that one cannot really compare the D300 state of the art matrix metering system to the rather primitive meter in the M8. Hmmmm. I've always considered 'matrix' type metering to be a form of automation in that unlike 'primitive' centre weighted metering it is not so easy to utilise manually to create repeatable results as its analysis of a scene utilises a variety of parameters. Of course if you are satisfied with the way it operates then fine, but IMHO centre weighted metering is not 'primitive', it merely requires more consideration in use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #14 Posted May 14, 2009 ...I have all my lenses coded by J Millich without having to deal with Customs. I just sent him relevant lens flanges, and coded them upon their return. Just unscrew those tiny screws in order to remove flanges, mail them to JM...Yuth, do you send them by courier or ordinary airmail, and how does JM send it back? —Mitch/Bangkok Wiang Pa Pao Pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted May 14, 2009 Share #15 Posted May 14, 2009 The M8-metering is in fact primitive and not very "intelligent". The reason is simple: It's difficult (or impossible?) to measure the whole field with TTL on a rangefinder because a white shutter would cause reflections. The lens-coding is another, more economic descision, Leica has to fight very agressive opponents making cheap lenses for the M-mount (even with prestigous brands) and has to use every chance to get payed for their state-of-the-art but therefore also very expensive lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 14, 2009 Share #16 Posted May 14, 2009 Hmmmm. I've always considered 'matrix' type metering to be a form of automation in that unlike 'primitive' centre weighted metering it is not so easy to utilise manually to create repeatable results as its analysis of a scene utilises a variety of parameters. Of course if you are satisfied with the way it operates then fine, but IMHO centre weighted metering is not 'primitive', it merely requires more consideration in use. I'll go further; center weighted metering simply requres different consideration in use--but not more--than a matrix meter. I'm happy that people like Nikon's matrix metering. I own a D3, and after testing, the first thing I did is turn the meter to spot and forget the computer's take on exposure. This works far more consistently for me over thousands of natural light and flash exposures on the day of an event. (Lest you think I'm singling Nikon out here, my Canon's were worse; I set them to spot as well). For some reason I always fool the matrix meter and the exposures are always mediocre. The center spot (and the M8's center almost spot) never lets me down. I shoot both the cameras in manual, and have zero problems switching back and forth. YMMV. But whatever Leica does, I hope they at least let me turn off the more "advanced" metering they're likely to come up with! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 14, 2009 Share #17 Posted May 14, 2009 Hmmmm. I've always considered 'matrix' type metering to be a form of automation in that unlike 'primitive' centre weighted metering it is not so easy to utilise manually to create repeatable results as its analysis of a scene utilises a variety of parameters. Of course if you are satisfied with the way it operates then fine, but IMHO centre weighted metering is not 'primitive', it merely requires more consideration in use. Quite. For "primitive" read "straightforward", "predictable", "consistent" "reliable" and, by the sound of it, "misunderstood" Mitch, it seems to me from reading your commentary that you should just be content with your Nikon digicam and maybe pair it with a D-Lux 4 for future expeditions - it has all that you appear to want in a smaller snapshot camera. The M8 and it's lack of "advanced" metering, image stabilisation, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, doesn't seem to be suited to your needs, and you are clearly uncomfortable with it. I agree with Jaap, btw - there is a definite period feel to some of your better shots - I kept expecting to see Saunders of the River at any moment. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #18 Posted May 14, 2009 Bill, thanks for being so condescending but I think you've missed the point of what I said. I've used two M6s for years and had no trouble metering with them, nor with the M8, as such. However, when I was using the M8 for landscape shots in alternating with the D300 for game using a telephoto and having to change cameras and shoot very quickly I kept on wishing that the M8 had a matrix metering system. I quite "understand" the M8 meter but, as I wrote above, It seems to me that people here are divided in their views between those who want the M8 to be just like the M6 and those, like me, who feel that, once you're using a digital camera, it should have some more modern digital features. Who is "Saunders of the River"? Mitch/Bangkok Wiang Pa Pao Pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 14, 2009 Share #19 Posted May 14, 2009 I love matrix metering on my DSLRs, especially when time is short. I do appreciate having the option to turn it off and use center-weighted or spot metering. But even with those options, I almost always use matrix metering. I feel that I know almost exactly what it will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 14, 2009 Share #20 Posted May 14, 2009 Mitch, I wouldn't go out and buy a brand new Morgan, say, and complain after the event about it having a manual gearbox. Instead I would relish deciding when I should change gear, rather than leaving the decision to a CPU that has been programmed thousands of miles away by someone who has no idea of how I want to drive, or the road conditions I face. If all these technological aids work for you - and they certainly seem to - then good for you, but don't expect everyone to want the same thing. It would be terribly boring if we all drove Hondas, told the time with Citizens and captured our adventures with Canons, eh? Everything would be so, well, samey, don't you think? Saunders of the River? A 1934 movie about a district commissioner in colonial Africa - lots of nice shots of elephants around the water hole, sort of thing. Most reminiscent. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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