Edax Posted October 30, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK this is just nitpicking but I wonder why the picture "Leica M8 with noise reduction" is called "3200-clean.jpg", given the ISO 2500 limit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 Hi Edax, Take a look here M8 Review on Luminous-Landscape. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Andrej Kolev Posted October 30, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 30, 2006 It's hard to say something in a hundredth time. Andrew you statement about loslless compression has no arguments at all, but you provide it as a fact in your FAQ. Can you prove it, for example give a code or any explanation. Also if you dont know there is some concept, called an entropy, you can find a wiki or something about it. If you have a lossless compressed file you cannot make it significantly smaller. Now take a M8 DNG file and use any archiever. 10 mb file became 4-7 mb file. I think no more explanations are needed. That is about data, about linear/nonlinear encoding - it is another question and you can look for example gamma FAQ or similar sources. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted October 30, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 30, 2006 Reichmann - obviously way out of his depth - writes: Quote: ... According to Dr. Know, a friend who writes raw software, and who is extremely knowledgeable in this area, .... What he told me is that the M8's DNG files are definitely 8 bit, not 16 bit. They may be 16 bit somewhere upstream of the DNG file, but the output file is in 8 bit format. Fear Uncertainty Doubt, confirmed by an anonymous source. Uh-huh... yeah, right. When will Leica (and Kodak) put these 8-bit Trolls to sleep? __ Andrew N. Ok. Let's play "I know more than you do". Except, that I'll reveal who "Dr. Know" is. (It was a silly joke not to name him in any event, since he didn't request anonimity on this subject.) It's Thomas Knoll, the original author of Photoshop, the author of Adobe Camera Raw, and one of the developers of the raw capabilities in Adobe Lightroom. Michael Ouch. 8-) JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 30, 2006 Share #44 Posted October 30, 2006 OK this is just nitpicking but I wonder why the picture "Leica M8 with noise reduction" is called "3200-clean.jpg", given the ISO 2500 limit... This is just a guess, but Sean Reid's review says that the actual sensitivity that Leica labels 2500 seems to be equivalent to 3200. (and similarly, he says that 1250 is really 1600, etc.) So if someone is using a light meter, they would set it up one-third stop. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 30, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 30, 2006 does anyone here think the wide gamut profile of the M8 (as profiled by Phase One) has something to do with the encoding scheme and colour recovery? Just curious... Just guessing, but along with leaving out the anti-aliasing blur filter that others have, Leica may have decided to do no IR blocking as well. The extra spike of red sensitivity could be the result of that. Their strategy seems to be to capture all they can, and deal with some of the side effects in software. I'm not sure how Reichman obtains his gamut plots in the LL article. The article doesn't seem to state it, but there are some references, and perhaps the approach is explained there. In particular, whose data is he plotting? his, Adobe's, Leica's..? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemeng Posted October 30, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 30, 2006 Can you prove it, for example give a code or any explanation. As I note earlier in this thread, it is not up to me to prove or disprove anything. That's Leica and/or Jenoptik's job. I do however cite in my FAQ the exact page of the Adobe DNG spec PDF where it states what kind of loss-less compression scheme is used. I also provide a number of different links explaining how the Huffman codec works. Surely that's enough :?) (And with that I respectfully bow out of this thread.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 30, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) (And with that I respectfully bow out of this thread.) It's about time. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevme Posted October 31, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 31, 2006 Thankyou for the gracious offer, but I've been top 5 in a google search for "leica m8" for months now, so I get plenty of traffic on the issue :?) Come now, Mr. Nemeth, your site, which I, too, have visited in the hope of finding some information on the M8, is among the least informative on the Internet. No flaming, please. ABr I don't fault you for this, you are dealing with the meager information at your disposal. But to put it on par with LL, this site, or others, is really a stretch. You have the hits you do, because people hope to find the information, FAQ after all, which, unfortunately, you are unable to provide. You would be better to confine yourself to more substantive points, such as your criticism of anonymous sources, with which I happen to agree. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgeoffrion Posted October 31, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 31, 2006 None of the mods are intervened in this thread up to now so I'll step-in. Is is possible to keep it civil without any personal attacks? Please. This bantering is really killing the mood. Disagreeing is fine. However, there are no reason for personal attacks. Thanks for toning it down. If the mods think I'm out of place, feel free to delete this post. Nope, not at all. We've always been a community that policed ourselves. No need for that to change IMO. Thanks JR. ABr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwatcher Posted October 31, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 31, 2006 jrgeoffrion, you have my full support. Possibly time to relax for a minute, calm down a little bit and continue with the fruitful discussion (which is very, very interesting so far!). Thanks -Klaus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 31, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 31, 2006 Hear, hear. Let's keep this civil and to the point, please, Gentlemen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 31, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 31, 2006 ............. the M8 created wobblies before it came out, when it was released, now with the reviews, next ownership wobblies and then some real space attacks when things go wrong.... sounds pretty normal.... next Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted October 31, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 31, 2006 OK this is just nitpicking but I wonder why the picture "Leica M8 with noise reduction" is called "3200-clean.jpg", given the ISO 2500 limit... just add some minus exposure compensation to the ISO limit. worked with film cameras when pushing films beyond the available ISO range Cheers Pierre Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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