$10,000 Leica S2 challenger from Pentax?

[leica007]

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Luminous Landscape report on Pentax 645D:

 

"[Pentax] have not taken a final decision on the sensor type/provider yet nor on its size and resolution. Previous iterations were built on top of a Kodak 31 MP sensor, and the camera’s resolution will be at least 30MP or more.

 

The current intention is to let customer decide whether they want a sensor with or without anti-aliasing filter, and it would be possible to add or remove the filter after the fact through a factory maintenance operation. Sounds like a good solution to me. The final decision to implement this feature or not has not been made yet.

 

The release date and pricing of the camera are also not fixed yet, but Pentax is targeting a 2010 availability at a price point no higher than 1 million yen (about $10,000). The camera would be marketed and sold worldwide.

 

As a side note, Pentax has announced that the production of the film version of Pentax 645AF camera ended September 2009, but maintenance will of course be continued for existing 645 customers. The production of Pentax lenses will also continue, and several new lenses are currently in the plans, starting with a 55mm and an ultra wide lens whose exact specifications remain to be announced. More details after the link. http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/lens/roadmap.pdf

 

People invested in the excellent Pentax 645 system will surely be happy to hear about this encouraging news."

[Shootist]

Isn't this camera total vaporware. It has been talked about for a couple of years now without even a single working unit produced?

 

IIRC a Working S2, or multiples, was at both of the photography show held recently.

 

In any event the Pentax doesn't take Leica lenses. And we all know that's what it's all about.

[jaapv]

People invested in the excellent Pentax 645 system will surely be happy to hear about this encouraging news."

All three of them?

I have the impression that most if not all of these cameras have moved into the hands of enthusiasts who could not care less about digital.

[Jamie Roberts]

This has been threatened for years and is a classic case of vaporware, even if it does show up in the next year.

[luigi bertolotti]

I can only comment that IF Pentax has a chance to re-enter the MF pro-market... well there isn't a reason for also Leica has its chance : the declining of Pentax brand has been, I'd say, worst than Leica never ending struggles to survive... and, at least, Leica has maintained an aura of lenses excellence which none has seriously put under discussion.

[Shootist]

I've only owned one Pentax camera and that was in the early 90's when I thought it would be good for me to get back into doing some photography. But when I compared the negatives from the Pentax to some older ones taken with a M3 and 50 Cron the Pentax ended up in the closet, where it still sits.

[adan]

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The article does state and show that there were 6x9-foot prints from the Pentax prototype on display at PIE. And the Pentax 645AF lens line already exists in toto, which is more than one can say for the full line of S2 lenses right now. So it's a little more than vaporware.

 

That being said, "30+" Mpixels is not the same as 39 Mpixels, and it is not even the same as "30+" Mpixels if the lenses can't deliver to-the-pixel resolution.

 

And it is still has a boxy, clunky form-factor compared to the S2.

 

Price reductions from Hassy and PhaseOne/Mamiya's 50-60 Mpixel cameras are probably more of a threat to the S2 than a low-ball Pentax - but it might make Nikon rethink the D3x price.

 

There is going to be a spectrum of bigger-than-35mm cameras - various pixel counts, various prices, various lens performances, various sizes and shapes and handling. Unless two cameras are very close together on the spectrum except for a vast difference in ONE characteristic (lens quality, or price, or whatever) - I don't see them as competing with each other.

[R10dreamer]

I think I have to disagree with you guys on this one. The Pentax 67 is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the S2. Pentax has a history of making a 35mm "medium" format camera and lenses. Leica does not. Pentax can make very good lenses and Pentax does have a brand name in the overall camera world. Add to this the price point of perhaps 50% of that of the Leica there will be an infringement into Leica's proposed market and direct competition (if this Pentax camera comes out) that Leica probably wasn't counting on competing against. All-in-all Leica doesn't need or want any direct competition for its S2. That was the whole point of their going with a large 35mm body and a mid-size sensor. All of the points out, to me, how quickly the digital world continues to evolve and how important it is for Leica to get this camera out of the factory and into people's hands with minimum technical difficulties.

 

I know you guys seem to laugh at this announcement but I think it is and important and economical challenge to Leica and their S2. We shall see.

 

 

GD Whalen Photography

[rosuna]

I don't like the ergonomics of current MF cameras. All of them are based on the old principles of camera plus back, and share a bazooka shape with a lateral grip. I find those designs unergonomic and unbalanced.

Only the Mamiya ZD departed from those principles, but it wasn't a success. The Leica S2 is the second MF design based on size/form of current 35mm reflex cameras.

 

The last prototype from Mamiya/Phase One insist on those old conventions:

 

DSLR Magazine - Mamiya 645 DF

 

And the Pentax 645D does the same. Look at these pictures of a working prototype:

 

PENTAX 645 DIGITAL(‰¼Ì)

 

.

[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}

And the Pentax 645D does the same. Look at these pictures of a working prototype:

 

PENTAX 645 DIGITAL(‰¼Ì)

 

.

 

I'm actually surprised they have a working prototype, though I admit I haven't been very interested in this since it failed to ship what--5 years ago? Maybe I'm mis-remembering here.

 

I agree with you FWIW. I handled the non-working prototype of the S2 at WPPI and it was a nice relief from MF cameras, and about the size of a 5d with grip. Smaller than my D3 for sure.

[luigi bertolotti]

I think I have to disagree with you guys on this one. The Pentax 67 is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the S2. Pentax has a history of making a 35mm "medium" format camera and lenses. Leica does not. Pentax can make very good lenses and Pentax does have a brand name in the overall camera world. Add to this the price point of perhaps 50% of that of the Leica there will be an infringement into Leica's proposed market and direct competition (if this Pentax camera comes out) that Leica probably wasn't counting on competing against. All-in-all Leica doesn't need or want any direct competition for its S2. That was the whole point of their going with a large 35mm body and a mid-size sensor. All of the points out, to me, how quickly the digital world continues to evolve and how important it is for Leica to get this camera out of the factory and into people's hands with minimum technical difficulties.

 

I know you guys seem to laugh at this announcement but I think it is and important and economical challenge to Leica and their S2. We shall see.

 

 

GD Whalen Photography

 

In the above evidenced sentence, I agree with you : 67 was a very serious camera, and a smart design to make a MF with a 35 SLR "feel"... many years have passed, but the S2 project has surely something to share with it : Digital MF with the "feel" of a FF DSLR. But i can also add that, imho, 67 was probably the last Pentax camera really used and bought in significant numbers by pros: in my above post, I simply pointed out that Pentax and Leica, in my opinion, have BOTH to struggle a lot to re-gain the pro market... maybe with a little advantage for Leica.

[markowich]

This has been threatened for years and is a classic case of vaporware, even if it does show up in the next year.

 

if it does show up (next year) it cannot be vaporware. or otherwise, the S2 is, too. please keep your standards of judgement consistent.

peter

[Jamie Roberts]

if it does show up (next year) it cannot be vaporware. or otherwise, the S2 is, too. please keep your standards of judgement consistent.

peter

 

Strictly speaking, Peter, you're correct: something that is delivered cannot be vaporware. And I was half-joking knowing full well the implications of calling something "delvered" vaporware regardless.

 

If they deliver it, that is

 

However, market-wise the Pentax digital MF was hot when it was announced back in 2005 (or 2004?) but if it's 5 or 6 years late, then I call it "vaporware" anyway: the camera they're promising to deliver now is clearly not the one they promised back when the 1ds was king, or if it is the same camera, then they've missed the market and technical advances anyway.

 

Pentax 645 Digital medium format camera

 

So I was joking for effect. But you're right; I'll stay consistent. If the promised S2 doesn't actually show up till 2013 or 2014, then I'll call it vaporware too

[luigi bertolotti]

About Pentax... curios that the Pentax 67 has came out in this thread... its discontinuation has been announced exactly in these days. Academically speaking, I think that if they would have designed and engineered a sort of "DMR" for the 67, with a MF sensor around 40x50 mm it could have resulted in an interesting item.

[Simon Baker]

I don't like the ergonomics of current MF cameras. All of them are based on the old principles of camera plus back, and share a bazooka shape with a lateral grip. I find those designs unergonomic and unbalanced.

Only the Mamiya ZD departed from those principles, but it wasn't a success. The Leica S2 is the second MF design based on size/form of current 35mm reflex cameras.

 

The last prototype from Mamiya/Phase One insist on those old conventions:

 

DSLR Magazine - Mamiya 645 DF

 

And the Pentax 645D does the same. Look at these pictures of a working prototype:

 

PENTAX 645 DIGITAL(‰¼Ì)

 

.

 

Have to disagree where the Hasselblad "H" series is concerned, it is supremely comfortable in the hand, very well balanced and the layout is sublime. If you have genuinely held one and did not like its feel then thats ok as everybody is different and entitled to their opinion, if however you have not had the chance to handle an "H" series then your blanket opinion on MF is unfair. Another nicely balanced and laid out camera is the Contax 645, and although discontinued it is still a very good system, I will however agree that most other MF is rather boxy and clunky compaired to the best 35mm based dslr's.

 

Regards Simon