sfage Posted July 3, 2006 Share #1 Posted July 3, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have just shot a brand new hotel. I spent one entire day. I have forty images that I feel comfortable showing my client. The point of the excercise is to give him images he can use to advertise in newspapers, magazines and brochures (internationally). I want to sell the images to him outright. What would you charge for that? I spoke with a colleague and he said he would charge $500 labour (plus per deum) and $100 per image. Does that sound about right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2006 Posted July 3, 2006 Hi sfage, Take a look here What are your Pro Rates?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted July 3, 2006 Share #2 Posted July 3, 2006 Shane it is always better to organise these things beforehand so all parties are aware of their obligations etc. Have a look at this site Us orientated but there are associations that offer a rates guide http://www.editorialphoto.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted July 3, 2006 Share #3 Posted July 3, 2006 Shane, I find this program to be useful for reference pricing. The database is even specific to magazines, if you end up sellling other work to them. http://www.fotoquote.com/ Pricing varies a lot by region, usage, licensing limitations, press runs, etc. I also agree with Imants that (for future projects) it's a very good idea to agree on the contract terms before you do the shoot. It's good to clarify not only pricing but what the licensing will be. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 3, 2006 Share #4 Posted July 3, 2006 I have just shot a brand new hotel. I spent one entire day. I have forty images that I feel comfortable showing my client. The point of the excercise is to give him images he can use to advertise in newspapers, magazines and brochures (internationally). I want to sell the images to him outright. What would you charge for that? I spoke with a colleague and he said he would charge $500 labour (plus per deum) and $100 per image. Does that sound about right? Sounds cheap to me. I have a friend who is a web designer, not a photgrapher. He took some pictures of a bank headquarters building while on vacation in Oregon, with some little Canon P&S digital. The bank found them (I know not how - he's a clever web designer) and asked to use the shots on their own website and publicity. He sent them low res versions of others that he had of the bank so that they could choose from his whole collection of shots of their building. So far he has had two years' worth of licence payments for around 10 shots and has earned $300 per shot per year for their priviledge of using them. Paid for his trip to the states twice over and he still retains the images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted July 3, 2006 Yes, I agree. It is generally a better idea to make everyone aware of the situation from the outset. To make a long story short, I got in to an unusual situation. I received this client through a referral. He and his partners came over to my place to look at images to purchase for the inside of the hotel. They were happy with a number of them and are ready to buy. All of a sudden, one of them said: "Have you seen our place? Why don't you just come out right now and have a look?" So, I did. Then, through a translator, one of them suggested that I go around and take a few shots the next day. I did that but I haven't shown them (except on the screen of the camera). On the way home, they said: "So, how do you want to do this deal?" I said "Essentially, I want you to take the images outright." He understood what I was "really" saying. Anyway. I think he gets the general idea that I am not doing this to become a boy scout. ... but yes. It's messy. I wanted it to go better than this. I don't want to jeopardize the deal for the images inside the hotel... nor do I want to screw up the outside deal, either. I kinda screwed this one up. ughh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted July 3, 2006 Share #6 Posted July 3, 2006 How about charging a day rate and 200% times the cost of the materials. I suggest a day rate here for that type of work, in the way it was sourced, would be about $900. I doubt they will expect to pay $4,000 for the prints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted July 3, 2006 Share #7 Posted July 3, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Shane - The way these things are done, beyond settling on terms and conditions before, is to charge an assignment rate, expenses, post-production and finally licensing fees for the end use of images, including geographical locations, period of coverage, market etc.. Did you mess this one up? Yep. Keeping in mind that this is the way he/she makes a living a pro does not sell images outright especially at the rates I saw contemplated on this thread. He/she would be out of business in no time. You have to factor in things such as cost of doing business, salary, equipment maintenance, insurance, professional development, vacation, professional associations, travel, etc.( this list is not meant to be exhaustive...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 3, 2006 Share #8 Posted July 3, 2006 I'd try the line that for this type of job and outright sale of copyright etc you would normally charge X but you are prepared to do a package deal to include the other prints you are selling to them, maybe that way you can up sell the prints too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted July 3, 2006 Share #9 Posted July 3, 2006 The unfortunate part is that the ball is well and truely in the Editors/Publishers court and rates have dropped dramatically in a lot of photographic areas, coupled with companies such as Gettys having such a huge stock image pile and counting . With the continual influx of new talent(some of it is outstanding) quite a number of this group are willing to work below cost price and then there is the Orhan Works Proposal which is further eroding the situation. In short there are a lot of people chasing the same dollar and ending up with a peso so it is imperative to raise and maintain the level of business practices in the photographic profession. Good luck Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted July 4, 2006 Share #10 Posted July 4, 2006 Shane won't likely be selling prints at all because this kind of work will usually be going to either art directors or web designers (usually via the web or on CD). Once again, I highly recommend Cradoc's program (fotoquote). It's based on real rates and allows one to dial in a number of factors. If you're going to be doing professional work regularly Shane, it's worth getting. When I set up a contract/licensing agreement with an inn or hotel, I get all of the details set in advance (esp. the usage particulars) and then often set a fixed rate for the licensing and the work itself (delivered on CD). This is an unusual method but I prefer it for its simplicity. I can then work at whatever pace I need to and the client doesn't have to worry about the hour rate or day rate meter running. The contract should specifically state that the arrangements for any usage not specified (in that original contract) must be made via an additional contract with the photographer. In other words, if the client decides that he needs to use the pictures for something beyond what was licensed intially, he needs to work that out with the photographer (via an additional contract). Needless to say, doing this work without contracts is asking for headaches. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share #11 Posted July 4, 2006 I'd try the line that for this type of job and outright sale of copyright etc you would normally charge X but you are prepared to do a package deal to include the other prints you are selling to them, maybe that way you can up sell the prints too. Yeah... I'm thinking this is what's going to happen. The nice thing about that is some of the prints are huge... and we all know what that means. The problem is: this is North Cyprus. It is, essentially, a non-recognized country. It's a "free-for-all". The people I am working for are quite worldly so they are mindful of international "customs". Others are not. To be clearer (and as an example), you cannot actually buy a real compact disc or DVD film here. They are all ripped off. If you can imagine entire music and film shops loaded to the hilt with stolen store stock. Not one_single_CD is legal. I have been speaking with some Cypriots about this. If Turkey does (in fact) get in to the EU, all of this stuff is going to have to stop. I wouldn't be surprised if -on the day they get in- some people will come and set up legitimate businesses here... with real CDs. If the guy with the legit shop sells for 25 lira and the rip-off guy sells the same CD for 5 lira, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the legit guy calls up his distributor and says "you'd better send some lawyers in here." They'll wipe this whole town out. They won't even need to rent a car. They can just walk from shop to shop to shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share #12 Posted July 4, 2006 How about charging a day rate and 200% times the cost of the materials. I suggest a day rate here for that type of work, in the way it was sourced, would be about $900. I doubt they will expect to pay $4,000 for the prints. Yeah, well I won't be providing them with any prints. My job is to deliver a CD with the high resolution files on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share #13 Posted July 4, 2006 Shane won't likely be selling prints at all because this kind of work will usually be going to either art directors or web designers (usually via the web or on CD). Once again, I highly recommend Cradoc's program (fotoquote). It's based on real rates and allows one to dial in a number of factors. If you're going to be doing professional work regularly Shane, it's worth getting. Cheers, Sean Yeah, I might just try that. I'm pretty tired of academe. I'm considering a change... and I happen to enjoy photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 4, 2006 Share #14 Posted July 4, 2006 Unless the 'client' is very keen to obtain the images you are not in a very strong position here. It's a classic situation most of us have been involved in when starting out and it usually ends up with very little money changing hands - the 'client' will either change his or her mind and deny ever asking for you to shoot the images or they will come out with some kind of "we only pay £x for photos" (x being about a tenth of what you had in mind). What also doesn't help is that you located in Northern Cyprus where I assume that you are not going to have access to a small claims court if things don't turn out too well. Whatever you do, don't hand over any high resolution images prior to being paid whatever you end up agreeing. I would advise treating this whole experience as a learning process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted July 29, 2006 Author Share #15 Posted July 29, 2006 Just to keep you updated... Both deals went off without a hitch. I ahve been paid for the outside shoot of the hotel as one deal. He's happy and so am I. I have walked around with the owner and staff of the hotel. We have gone in to every room with the floor plans. I have just been given a large deposit for printing. I will print all of the images for the inside of the hotel today. Essentially, there are 150 A3 prints and five 75X100 prints. So... I'm up and in the running for the new digi M and a new (used) car!!!!... and I still have to get paid from my teaching job. ... we're all smiles over here! (Shane seen walking down the hall, dancing, talking to himself, saying something that sounds like: "shake it baby... shake it") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumac Posted July 29, 2006 Share #16 Posted July 29, 2006 Congratulations Shane, Glad all worked out well for you, its good to work for an honest client who is not trying to rip you off. Regards, Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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