petermcwerner Posted October 27, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 27, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) What are the aspects of the M8 that concern you? I am not comparing it to the DMR, I will definitely keep that system for "serious" work. The M8 would take the place the D2, when I do not want to carry the weight and bulk of the DMR system. It will be significantly heavier and bulkier than the D2. To cover the same focal lengths as the D2, I shall need 24,28,35,50,75mm lenses. It would also be slower because of the time for changing lenses. I would get better file quality - provided snow does not enter the body when changing lenses, or I do not slip on the mountain … It does not seem to be a dream setup for traveling light, mountaineering, biking, skiing and it might end up on a shelf like the M4. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Hi petermcwerner, Take a look here SR's review of the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 27, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 27, 2006 I like the D2 but it's a bit of an old slug, you never really know when it's going to fire and the viewfinder is a pretty miserable thing which first saw life in a Sony video camera. I'll keep mine for those times when I just want to grab a camera. For anything more significant where the specific advantages of an SLR are not required, the M8 is going to be a dream camera. Most of the time, a couple of lenses is all you need, a 24+50, a 35+75, depending on what you plan to shoot. That's hardly cumbersome. Alternatively, you build a collection of small lenses - 28/f2.8, 35/2, 50/2 (or 50.2.8), 90/4. Finally, you can run with the two Tri-Elmars and a 90 Elmarit for full coverage. Lots of possibilities, nobody says you have to take all your kit with you every time you go shooting. I actually enjoy being freed from the zoom lens, teaches you to move for the best shot instead of being lazy and twirling the zoom ring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 27, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 27, 2006 It does not seem to be a dream setup for traveling light, mountaineering, biking, skiing and it might end up on a shelf like the M4. In that case, perhaps you should hold off and just use what you have already. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted October 27, 2006 Share #44 Posted October 27, 2006 Sean: a tip...can you highlight the heading/date of entry for your review updates so they are easier to spot when being searched for? also: have you noticed any image changes with the new firmware compared to the earlier review sample? thx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 27, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 27, 2006 Sean: 1. a tip...can you highlight the heading/date of entry for your review updates so they are easier to spot when being searched for? 2. also: have you noticed any image changes with the new firmware compared to the earlier review sample? thx Hi jlm, 1) I usually note the date. Must have forgotten this time, sorry. 2) Yes, but I can't discuss them. Cheers, S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 28, 2006 I just added another section with crops from an ISO 640 sample. The camera performs very well at that speed. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted October 28, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Cheers, Sean Do you think you have an image on show that illustrates the 'utimate' image quality that is possible from the M8 (non-studio) in coloour and B&W ? Presumeably these will be the slowest ISO rating shots ? If so, which images would you direct us to, or should we await another sample to be uploaded? And, is there a chance of a download of a RAW file, or highest quality TIFF crop ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 28, 2006 Do you think you have an image on show that illustrates the 'utimate' image quality that is possible from the M8 (non-studio) in coloour and B&W ? QUOTE] I think the crop of the vegetable picture shows the quality possible at ISO 160. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted October 28, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 28, 2006 Hi jlm, 2) Yes, but I can't discuss them. S Sean, Did Leica actually tell you not to talk about improvements in image quality? If so, that and their resolute reluctance to release any RAW files, even ones they have taken, is most puzzling. Are there any marketing types here who can explain this thinking to us? Also - do you happen to know if the camera Michael has contains the same firmware as yours? When he of the 39MP back waxes poetic about a 10MP image, it can’t help but grab your attention..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 28, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 28, 2006 I can understand Leica not wanting Sean making comparisons between old and new. If he was to say "they've improved X", that would simply focus people on the new X to look at possible areas still needing work, instead of looking at the picture quality in the round. The product should be judged on what it delivers now, not on the route it's taken to get here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 28, 2006 Sean, ...do you happen to know if the camera Michael has contains the same firmware as yours? When he of the 39MP back waxes poetic about a 10MP image, it can’t help but grab your attention..... I'm not sure what's in his camera but I suspect that we're both working with 1.06 I worked with large format for a long time but I'm still impressed by the M8. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 28, 2006 I can understand Leica not wanting Sean making comparisons between old and new. If he was to say "they've improved X", that would simply focus people on the new X to look at possible areas still needing work, instead of looking at the picture quality in the round. The product should be judged on what it delivers now, not on the route it's taken to get there. Very perceptive comment... Cheers, S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinoworks Posted October 28, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 28, 2006 I also found it to be balanced, detailed, not phobic about noise and pixel count, and especially good around the issues of how it feels to hold, use, and the effect on others being photographed. I strongly recommend Sean's site, not just for this but for many of his reviews (such as his recent review of the Nikon, best I've read). As a long time owner of M cameras, as I've gotten older and eyes worse, only one thing has tempted me toward an SLR: autofocus. For the "must have" shot, even if it's for checking the manual focus. In his (non) copious free time, I'd love to hear about the issue of focus and practice in use, an obvious issue in street photography or documentary photography (which is what I do). Mike Sheridan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted October 28, 2006 Share #54 Posted October 28, 2006 I The product should be judged on what it delivers now, not on the route it's taken to get there.[/quote On that note, what is clear esp from Sean's 160 comparison with the 5D is that the M8 has just fine dynamic range and detail. Actually more than fine. Look at the onion skin - the M8 has surprisinglybetter detail (andno, it is not just sharpening, there are more feature showing) As the one who started the whole Andej 8-bit discussion thread (talk about a Pandora's box, I was at the time more interested in the file size!) it seems the IQ tells the story. They could be using 4 bit for all I care the detail and the depth are there. (NB: as a physicist and mathematician I am still curious what the real answer is.) Sean's first crop tells the story, and it seems a pretty good story at that. regards Victor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #55 Posted October 28, 2006 I also found it to be balanced, detailed, not phobic about noise and pixel count, and especially good around the issues of how it feels to hold, use, and the effect on others being photographed. I strongly recommend Sean's site, not just for this but for many of his reviews (such as his recent review of the Nikon, best I've read). As a long time owner of M cameras, as I've gotten older and eyes worse, only one thing has tempted me toward an SLR: autofocus. For the "must have" shot, even if it's for checking the manual focus. In his (non) copious free time, I'd love to hear about the issue of focus and practice in use, an obvious issue in street photography or documentary photography (which is what I do). Mike Sheridan Thanks very much for the comments Mike. The M8 is as easy to focus as an M7. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 28, 2006 Share #56 Posted October 28, 2006 As the one who started the whole Andej 8-bit discussion thread (talk about a Pandora's box, I was at the time more interested in the file size!) it seems the IQ tells the story Victor, as I've posted on another thread, I've looked at this thing in some detail this week and I'm completely comfortable with the way I think Leica are handling it, and the images I am seeing just confirm that Leica have made a well balanced choice. The M8 is truly a landmark camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted October 28, 2006 Share #57 Posted October 28, 2006 I can understand Leica not wanting Sean making comparisons between old and new. If he was to say "they've improved X", that would simply focus people on the new X to look at possible areas still needing work, instead of looking at the picture quality in the round. The product should be judged on what it delivers now, not on the route it's taken to get here. That makes sense, although it seems obvious to me people would judge it on the most current firmware. I do not understand Leicas restrictive attitude about what is off limits to a reviewer and their refusal to allow anyone to see RAW files. In the end it is irrelevant (and impossible to police, given the internet), but their position carries a certain adversarial flavor. At least that is how I see it. I have always been wholeheartedly in Leica’s camp, but that feeling has diminished lately. Perhaps something is being lost in the translation as it passes through many people to us. Sean, I have tons of large format negatives too, but they have all been conventional prints, not digitized. I have looked the 22MP, 39MP and scanning 4 x 5 back RAW files, and the image quality really is exceptional. If I were using them routinely, I would not, for example, see a file from a 1Ds2, and make a similar comment. I doubt he would either, and that is what makes me so curious. Perhaps they were just better than he expected from 10MP, and he penned that comment in a moment of high enthusiasm. Whatever, it will be interesting to see what he has to say come Monday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liaonet Posted October 28, 2006 Share #58 Posted October 28, 2006 Sean, Your review of the M8 is one of the most thoughtful, thorough and honest I have ever seen in terms of technology reviews and I have to say I am damn impressed. With some Luck I get me M8 next week and now I cannot wait! Warmest regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #59 Posted October 28, 2006 Sean, Your review of the M8 is one of the most thoughtful, thorough and honest I have ever seen in terms of technology reviews and I have to say I am damn impressed. With some Luck I get me M8 next week and now I cannot wait! Warmest regards, Bill Welcome Bill, Thank you very much. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 28, 2006 Share #60 Posted October 28, 2006 Do you think you have an image on show that illustrates the 'utimate' image quality that is possible from the M8 (non-studio) in coloour and B&W ? Presumeably these will be the slowest ISO rating shots ? If so' date=' which images would you direct us to, or should we await another sample to be uploaded? And, is there a chance of a download of a RAW file, or highest quality TIFF crop ?[/quote'] I don't know if it is ultimate, but take a look at Uwe Steinmuller's Leica M8 diary, first installment, on digital outback. His standard shot -- the ornate front of an Italian restaurant in LosGatos -- is posted, and he provides the raw file. I looked at it in C1 enlarged up to 400%, and found it to be sharp, smooth, glitch-free, whatever you might want. Summicron 50, 1/500 sec, aperture not stated, but since this was ISO 160 on a sunny day, perhaps f/8. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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