carlmuck Posted January 22, 2009 Share #1 Posted January 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, yesterday we had a little party in Washington, D.C. I was one of the 2,000,000 or so folks standing in the cold (~20F/-7C) waiting to hear from our new President. I brought my M8 and M6 (I didn't know if my batteries (2) would last the entire day (0400-???). Started off the morning, taking available darkness photos (I'm quite pleased with the ISO 1250 performance) until twilight seeped in (~0620). About 1/2 hour before sunrise (~0645) ~2.5 hours into the battery, and ~150 exposures. The camera just stopped. I was shooting, took the camera away from my eye to look for another shot, brought it back to my eye and nothing. First I assumed it timed out (didn't think it was 5 min since the last exposure...) so I pressed the shutter to awaken and nothing. The battery indicator never dropped below 3 bars. So I swapped in the new battery (which had been in the bag, so about at ambient temp) and the camera came back alive, with a difference... I had been shooting AUTO ISO, but when it came back alive it was set to 1250 (bright morning skylight shouldn't need 1/8000!). About a 1/2 an hour later I got the same "frozen" state (exposure/battery window blank, not reactive to shutter button, no action on the rear-panel buttons). So I shut the camera off while prepping my M6, just before swapping lenses I tried the M8 again and it came back to life! Battery indicated full strength, profile setting was correct (AUTO ISO). So I kept both cameras out (M8 with a 75, M6 with a 35) and worked that way for another hour or so until the M8 crapped out again. Not wanting to give up on the M8 I swapped batteries, and the "dead" battery worked for another 100 exposures or so until it finally gave up the ghost. So as the inaugural ceremonies started I was back in 1985 with the M6, metering shots, cocking the shutter using that silly little crank, changing film!!! I'd forgotten how involved photography was. So first question is has anyone seen oddities with an M8 in extended cold weather use? Second question, possibly related to the first, any idea what happened to this exposure: The red box highlights obvious problems (right side of image), the green box highlights some less obvious banding (left side of image). thanks in advance. carl. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Hi carlmuck, Take a look here M8 and cold weather. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
j_lir Posted January 22, 2009 Share #2 Posted January 22, 2009 i had similar exposure's when shooting the obama celebrations here in chicago. maybe it has something to do with that. i've seen alot of banding, but i have yet to get frames like this again. you have any of that work online? i'd like to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 22, 2009 Share #3 Posted January 22, 2009 I posted yesterday a similar thread, with a happier ending, but for some reason the moderators decided to move it into the deepest darkest bin in the forum, all because I sinned and posted a photo, as you have. Moderators: do not move this thread. It is useful. The point is that the Inaugural conditions tested the M8 in cold weather. For those who only watched it on television: it was consistently cold, no more than 25 degrees Farenheit, -2 or so Celsius, and to participate either on Sunday at the opening ceremony, or yesterday, you had to be out in it for 6 or more hours at a time. For me, my M8 mostly held up. I had one problem where a battery wouldn't fire the camera after three shots taken rapidly. But I switched batteries and all was good after that. Later, I needed to use the "dead" battery and it was fine. My conclusion: the M8 is fine in cold weather, but the batteries are not so fine. Taking photos over several hours in temperatures below freezing really test a camera and its batteries. Sorry you had the problem you did. I feel lucky. But then I also feel lucky having gotten into the swearing in, when so many others were stuck outside the security perimeter. For those interested in seeing some images from yesterday and Sunday, click on the Zenfolio link below. JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted January 22, 2009 Share #4 Posted January 22, 2009 I also was in DC, with my 2 M8's and both had real problems in the cold. Both would go dead, and be revived by swapping warmer batteries. But one started giving me a "Shutter Failure" ERR and stayed out of commission the rest of the afternoon. I started thinking about if it were still under warranty. On the train back to NY, I assume after the camera warmed up, it started functioning normally, but I'm left with a concern about that shutter. I'm also left knowing that, unfortunately, if I am ever either doing a paid job in subfreezing temperatures for hours, or if, like yesterday, I'm shooting for pleasure in a situation where I don't want to miss a single shot, I will have to carry my D3. Not good. best....Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer 53 Posted January 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted January 22, 2009 Shutters will freeze or stick when its cold enough as well. Happened once to me on my old Canon A1. When I was in the military in Europe and had to take photos, we would take metal Joni Hand Warmers, leave them in the felt carrying bag, and tape them to the base plate of cameras to ensure cold related malfunctions did not occur AND keep your hands warm enough to manipulate the camera controls without gloves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmfabian Posted January 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted January 22, 2009 not to be a party pooper and sound like a leica snobbist, but any camera (canon and nikon included...believe me I know first hand that a 1dsMKIII will tap out in the cold very quickly if it isn't kept warm) will eventually putz out in sub freezing weather. When shooting in the cold, always get yourself a big jacket that can accommodate a camera inside near your body to keep your camera in every now and then and warm it back up. Sub-freezing weather wreaks havoc on batteries and shutters...heck, I've even torn film in cold weather by advancing too quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 22, 2009 Share #7 Posted January 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your file error looks like it is probably related to your battery. These types of errors are seen in other cameras when the batteries are getting weak or faulty. Incidentally, if you use cornerfix, you will be able to read the temperature of the camera stored in the files. I have used my M8 in -20 celcius and the internal camera temperature never gets to the ambiant. I might have gotten a reading as low as -10c or so. If your camera or batteries are a few years old, it might be worth getting a new battery. In addition, draining your existing batteries fully by disabling the auto power off, and then recharging may bring some life back to them. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted January 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted January 22, 2009 Shutters will freeze or stick when its cold enough as well. Happened once to me on my old Canon A1. When I was in the military in Europe and had to take photos, we would take metal Joni Hand Warmers, leave them in the felt carrying bag, and tape them to the base plate of cameras to ensure cold related malfunctions did not occur AND keep your hands warm enough to manipulate the camera controls without gloves. Thanks for this, and it certainly makes sense. As I consider it, I can't remember ever putting any camera through 6 continuous hours exposed to subfreezing temperature. And, btw, my hands did get involved, one of the times I swapped batteries my stiff fingers fumbled the baseplate which fell, got a ding, and did not fit properly. In the end, I did get some shots though! best...Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevidon Posted January 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted January 22, 2009 You'd better send your camera in for a checkup. I just returned from the ANTARCTIC and shot with my M8 v2.02 to my heart's content without any sign of failure. All shots were great. BTW, my Nikon D300 also performed flawlessly. I suggest that something is wrong with your M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted January 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted January 22, 2009 I also was in DC, with my 2 M8's and both had real problems in the cold. Both would go dead, and be revived by swapping warmer batteries. But one started giving me a "Shutter Failure" ERR and stayed out of commission the rest of the afternoon. I started thinking about if it were still under warranty. On the train back to NY, I assume after the camera warmed up, it started functioning normally, but I'm left with a concern about that shutter. I'm also left knowing that, unfortunately, if I am ever either doing a paid job in subfreezing temperatures for hours, or if, like yesterday, I'm shooting for pleasure in a situation where I don't want to miss a single shot, I will have to carry my D3. Not good. best....Peter Have a look at the working range of your D3. It also states - like the M8 manual aswell - 0°C to 40°C. Same applies for Canon 5D MkII. I think it is a digital issue, i.e. battery related. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted January 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted January 22, 2009 So I swapped in the new battery (which had been in the bag, so about at ambient temp) and the camera came back alive, with a difference... I had been shooting AUTO ISO, but when it came back alive it was set to 1250 (bright morning skylight shouldn't need 1/8000!). About a 1/2 an hour later I got the same "frozen" state (exposure/battery window blank, not reactive to shutter button, no action on the rear-panel buttons). So I shut the camera off while prepping my M6, just before swapping lenses I tried the M8 again and it came back to life! Battery indicated full strength, profile setting was correct (AUTO ISO). So I kept both cameras out (M8 with a 75, M6 with a 35) and worked that way for another hour or so until the M8 crapped out again. I've noticed the settings changing when the camera has died. I have deduced that settings are not 'persisted' until the camera is manually switched off. So if you change settings, then keep shooting without powering off the camera, and then it dies - your settings will revert to the prior ones (the ones in force the last time you switched off the camera) when the battery is replaced. If on the other hand, you switch off the camera after changing settings, then they are persisted and will be retained if the camera subsequently requires a 'reboot'. The settings might also be persisted if the camera goes into sleep state - not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machaon Posted January 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted January 22, 2009 Please find a link to some images taken in Chicago a few weeks ago by a temperature of about - 5 Celsius summilux.net :: Voir le sujet - Tropicalisation M8 I saw a big blob appearing on the screen while shooting a few images just before going to O'Hare to fly back home. According to my local dealer, it was a huge oil drop !!! I asked Solms for an explanation and advice to use my M8 by low temperature : still waiting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted January 22, 2009 I just did a look through DP Review of each thread looking for problems related to cold weather and also a google search. I only found one problem other than Leica M8 and that was for a specific lens on the Nikon not auto focusing in the cold. When the question of cold weather operation was raised on the Canon forum there were numerous users that said their cameras worked at temperatures well below 0 F including several that lived in Alaska. All the threads that discussed cold weather operation cautioned shorter battery life and care against condensation for going from cold to warm environment and that is it. Not one thread on a failure going back to the day before the inauguration. With all of the P&S and SLRs at the event, you would have expected to see many threads on cold weather failure if it were a common occurrence. Just a Leica problem apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted January 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted January 22, 2009 Batteries can lose as much as 90% of their efficiency when they get cold. A good plan to avoid problems during extended periods out in the cold is to keep a spare battery in a pocket where it will get body heat and periodically switch it out with the one in the camera. And, no, this isn't just a Leica problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luis D Posted January 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted January 22, 2009 I donot think the M8 is most sensitive to the cold, but it is very sensitive to the level of power remains inside the battery. Other cameras will operate OK when the battery is below 1/3 charge but the M8 will not, and instead of give a warning, the M8 will start to show failures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted January 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted January 22, 2009 As I mentionned in another thread, I am experiencing the recoking problems. I spent a month in Argentina between 25-40C and returned to Paris where temperature have been in the 0-5 degrees. Basically I went from on extreme of the recommended operating range to the other in 2 days. While taking a walk (M8 outside on neck strap) on Sunday, the recocking problem appeared. Battery was full. When I returned home, the M8 went back to normal after one hour. Last night I took it out again and same thing, recocking problem until I got back home. My M8 just went out of warranty ... I have tried changing the SD card and batteries loaded full ... did not work (maybe I need a new one ?). Tonight I will try to leave the M8 in my coat between shots to see if it resists the cold Paris chills. Tomorrow I will try to put a scarf around it ... sometimes I just wonder if it will soon start to sneeze... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted January 22, 2009 First, I suggest that we should follow that handwarmer advice. A good idea is to use a bag with some internal padding that can serve as insulation, and keep a handwarmer in it, and return the camera to the bag often. I am also confirmed in my opinion that a large capacity add-on battery pack would be a fine idea. This said, I have often used my M8 in sub-freezing weather without any problems. The old man from the Age B.B. (Before Batteries) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted January 22, 2009 Share #18 Posted January 22, 2009 The old man from the Age B.B. (Before Batteries) Hmmm... BB is not Before Batteries but Brigitte Bardot... which is better... but also the same idea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted January 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted January 22, 2009 Lars, The handwarmer is good for anything camera in the cold... and keeping the batteries near the body is a great idea as it keeps them warm and operating. I used to capture news video in freezing weather, we found that rotating the batteries off the camera and into a warm pocket did wonders, keeping the batteries warm is 90% of the trick as it means they will provide the the juice when required. On the other hand, I personally strongly advise against the idea of sticking the camera under the coat, because if you perspire this moisture will interfere with the function of the camera. (naturally this only applies to men as we all know woman do not perspire ) So in my experience the answer is a dry insulated camera bag with a BP90 fresh off the charger to keep things from freezing entirely. Though don't flash heat your stuff in cold weather either, as rapid temperature changes is not that good for anything either. Just my 2 cents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmuck Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted January 22, 2009 i had similar exposure's when shooting the obama celebrations here in chicago.maybe it has something to do with that. i've seen alot of banding, but i have yet to get frames like this again. you have any of that work online? i'd like to see. Online at "http://www.archieandhubert.net/ObamaInaug" its just the digital stuff, I now have to wait for the Kodachrome to come back. In reviewing the shots, it is interesting to see that the red of the volunteer hats (I was one too!) is pretty electric in some of the photos. Have you posted any Chicago shots? I looked at your site and they didn't jump out at me. carl. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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