sean_reid Posted January 4, 2009 Share #21 Posted January 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Howard, when you talk about "cyan drift" are you saying that the image drifts to a blue tint? Because I see blue at the corners of both photographs. That or I'm color blind. I'm not Howard but cyan drift is the counterpart of red vignetting. It describes the way IR-cut filters can cause overall color balance to drift towards cyan (away from red) as the lens' coverage moves further and further off axis (with respect to field of view). The original IR-cut filter designers (I interviewed one of them) intended the filters to be used only with lenses that had fairly narrow fields of view. With an IR-cut filter mounted (and assuming the same camera) a 21 will show more cyan drift than a 24, which itself will show more than a 28, etc. Cyan drift can just barely be detected (with careful testing) in 50 mm lenses (used on the M8) but it is so minor there that its often not worth correcting. At about 35/40 mm and wider the effect becomes quite visible. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here Legacy lenses with M8 . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sean_reid Posted January 4, 2009 Share #22 Posted January 4, 2009 david--This is the kind of thing coding will prevent. Sean is right about which lenses to code: The 21 needs it first. Second priority is either the 35 or the Tri-Elmar, depending on which of those you use more often. Yes, definitely the 21 first. I'd say the 28 end of the Tri-Elmar needs it most next but Howard is right that this depends partly on how much you use each lens. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted January 4, 2009 Code the 21, Tri-Elmar and the 35. The other two lenses will do as well, or better, uncoded. Cheers, Sean Sean, thank you for such direct and helpful advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share #24 Posted January 4, 2009 Here is another that I never did anything with until now. It is clear that there is discoloration on this one and it is/would be a problem. So hopefully others with questions about "coding lenses" will see these. I welcome anyone reading to feel free and have at these david David, thank you for posting your two pictures. On my recently recalibrated monitor I can clearly see the problem and it is one that I would find unacceptable. Howard, thank you also for confirming Sean's recommendation regarding the TriElmar. I wonder how many M8 users also use the 28-50-35 TE on a regular basis. If so, feedback on performance experiences would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted January 4, 2009 Share #25 Posted January 4, 2009 Thanks guys! I am late getting back on here. I have a new dog who needs leash training as much as I needed a post-holiday morning run! And guilty as charged! I'm sure I need to calibrate my monitor. This shows up on my screen but it is fairly subtle. The consistency in photos of density (or darkness on the upper left especially) is there in several photos. And again the Elmarit Asph that I had along shows none of this where in some photos taken with that lens it would be very obvious. Best regards, david Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfspencer Posted January 4, 2009 Share #26 Posted January 4, 2009 Thanks guys! I am late getting back on here. I have a new dog who needs leash training as much as I needed a post-holiday morning run! And guilty as charged! I'm sure I need to calibrate my monitor. This shows up on my screen but it is fairly subtle. The consistency in photos of density (or darkness on the upper left especially) is there in several photos. And again the Elmarit Asph that I had along shows none of this where in some photos taken with that lens it would be very obvious. Best regards, david I don't want to change the subject but what do you use to calibrate your monitor? I definitely see a color change in the corners but in my monitor the tint is blue. And thanks to you, Sean, for the explanation about cyan drift. I can see that I have a lot to learn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted January 4, 2009 Share #27 Posted January 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) On the Mac, go into system preferences and then Displays and follow to the Color adjustment at top and calibration which is a selection on the right side of the dialog box. It will take you through the steps quickly. Sean's site offers a very clear explanation and with examples in the testing particularly of the 21mm lenses. david Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfspencer Posted January 4, 2009 Share #28 Posted January 4, 2009 On the Mac, go into system preferences and then Displays and follow to the Color adjustment at top and calibration which is a selection on the right side of the dialog box. It will take you through the steps quickly. Sean's site offers a very clear explanation and with examples in the testing particularly of the 21mm lenses. david Thanks, David. I didn't even know I had that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted January 5, 2009 Share #29 Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks, David. I didn't even know I had that. Frankly, either did I. I want mt old "silver" darkroom back....but this time with someone to do the mixing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 5, 2009 Share #30 Posted January 5, 2009 I don't want to change the subject but what do you use to calibrate your monitor? I definitely see a color change in the corners but in my monitor the tint is blue. And thanks to you, Sean, for the explanation about cyan drift. I can see that I have a lot to learn. I use an NEC 2490 SpectraView monitor which is hardware calibrated using the NEC colorimeter that came with it (a version of an EyeOne puck). Calibration by eye (using Adobe Gamma or the like) is certainly better than nothing but a colorimeter is really the way to go if one wants to look carefully at color. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted January 5, 2009 Share #31 Posted January 5, 2009 I use an NEC 2490 SpectraView monitor which is hardware calibrated using the NEC colorimeter that came with it (a version of an EyeOne puck). Calibration by eye (using Adobe Gamma or the like) is certainly better than nothing but a colorimeter is really the way to go if one wants to look carefully at color. Cheers, Sean I'm sure you get what you pay for. Even now that my monitor is calibrated, there is no appreciable difference in what I was getting before I re-calibrated. I can see the cyan drift but it is again fairly subtle so that I could be led to believe that the light hitting the courtyard in this instance is simply "cooler" light created by some shadow or something. Seeing the drift in the other imgage and a couple of DNG files that I haven't processed or posted brought it all home to me. I bet on a better monitor I would be surprised at what is coming across! david Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 5, 2009 Share #32 Posted January 5, 2009 The cyan cast can be fairly subtle, if you are not used to looking for it. However, under some circumstances you really see it, like a bride standing in the corner of the frame It is worth correcting for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted January 5, 2009 I appreciate the helpful advice offered in response to my original question and have enjoyed the diversion along the way into screen calibration, etc. But I still wonder if any M8 users also have experience of using the original 28-50-35 TriElmar with the M8? How well does that lens perform with a digital sensor? It could influence whether I should get it coded or replace it with a new prime lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 5, 2009 Share #34 Posted January 5, 2009 David, I have the Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 and use it with the M8. It is coded and I use it with UV/IR Cut filter. (All my codable lenses have been coded and I use a filter with all lenses.) Because 1) I prefer wide angle; and 2) I have a 50/1.4 for times when I need that focal length; I do not use the lens as often as I did with film. About 80% of my own shooting on M8 is with 21mm lens (28mm equiv). I do use the Tri-Elmar, but more often with the M8 I choose shorter focal lengths. The 28-35-50 range seems perfect to me for a film camera and for any future full-frame M digital. But you know this is a strictly personal choice, based on what lenses one has, what one likes to shoot etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 6, 2009 Share #35 Posted January 6, 2009 Howard, when you talk about "cyan drift" are you saying that the image drifts to a blue tint? Because I see blue at the corners of both photographs. That or I'm color blind. Cyan is a greenish-blue colour. The word was borrowed from the printing industry, where cyan, magenta (purplish) and yellow are the three primary subtractive ink colours. Just as red, green and blue are the three additive primary colours of your TV and your computer monitor. The old man from the Age of Gutenberg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted January 6, 2009 Share #36 Posted January 6, 2009 My favorite 'minimal' set is cron 28/2 ASPH for low light/ultimate IQ and tri-elmar 28-50-35 for walking around & daytime stuff. The tri-elmar gets used mainly at 50mm, then 28mm, hardly ever at 35mm. Both are the original 6-bit coded versions. This is especially useful with the tri-elmar if you want to document what focal length you were using for a particular image as it is available in the exif. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 6, 2009 Share #37 Posted January 6, 2009 But I still wonder if any M8 users also have experience of using the original 28-50-35 TriElmar with the M8? It performs very well. I had mine coded as the lens goes to 28mm. It has to be sent to Solms for the coding. It's not a lens I use a lot, mainly in summer as a walk around lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share #38 Posted January 6, 2009 David, I have the Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 and use it with the M8. It is coded and I use it with UV/IR Cut filter. (All my codable lenses have been coded and I use a filter with all lenses.) Because 1) I prefer wide angle; and 2) I have a 50/1.4 for times when I need that focal length; I do not use the lens as often as I did with film. About 80% of my own shooting on M8 is with 21mm lens (28mm equiv). I do use the Tri-Elmar, but more often with the M8 I choose shorter focal lengths. The 28-35-50 range seems perfect to me for a film camera and for any future full-frame M digital. But you know this is a strictly personal choice, based on what lenses one has, what one likes to shoot etc. Howard, Stephen and Steve, many thanks for your very helpful contributions. I realize that all lenses are application dependent but anecdotal evidence of usage is extremely useful in planning ahead. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryharwood Posted January 6, 2009 Share #39 Posted January 6, 2009 Just a little item of interest; the editor of the Leica fellowship went to leica UK to enquire as to the cost of having his lenses coded, if he were to buy an M8; he was astonished & and upset when he was told that it would cost him £195 for each lens!! he promptly sat down and wrote a strong complaint to the CEO of Leica Solms, expressing his dismay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2009 Share #40 Posted January 6, 2009 Just a little item of interest; the editor of the Leica fellowship went to leica UK to enquire as to the cost of having his lenses coded, if he were to buy an M8; he was astonished & and upset when he was told that it would cost him £195 for each lens!!he promptly sat down and wrote a strong complaint to the CEO of Leica Solms, expressing his dismay. It does seem rather over the top... However, there are various diy solutions that are just as good and the costs vary from moderate to practically nil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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