Is it Better to Reformat or Delete Images?

[Tenor1]

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A rep said the best method is to reformat rather than to erase or delete images from a card. But recently a computer student said the process is exactly the same.

 

What do you do?

 

Regards,

Carlos Marques

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[erl]

REformat, in the camera type that will use the card next. Different cameras will have different 'formatting' requrements. Simply deleting (apperently) does not always give the same size free space on the card. I have 4 different digicams ythat share my stock of SD cards. Each demands a different format. The reason your 'computer student' is a student is because he/she still has a lot to learn, ...... as do we all!

[adan]

Flash memory devices (cards or flash drives) have file systems (just like a floppy disk, CD-ROm, or hard drive) written on them.

 

Deleting individual files just removes that file from the file system's "list" of files, while leaving all the undeleted files in the list (or else they would disappear, too.)

 

Using "Delete all" removes all the files from the list, but leaves the folder structure intact.

 

A "soft" format erases and rewrites the folder names and starts a fresh file list.

 

All of the above will leave most or all of the actual picture data still on the card as 1's and 0's, but vulnerable to being overwritten as soon as you start taking new pictures.

Which is why you can "recover" pictures - sometimes - with special software that bypasses the file database and just looks at each individual bit of data in the card. And is also why simply using "delete" over and over occasionally results in corrupt files where parts of old pictures turn up intermixed with the new pictures.

 

For that reason an in-camera reformat is preferable once you have copied all the pix to your computer and are ready to start with an "empty" card.

 

A "hard" format with a computer - which should always be followed by a camera format for the reasons erl describes, to set up the specific file structure that camera expects - actually erases the bits themselves, and a "zero overwrite" format not only erases the bits but then overwrites them with new blank data and then reformats, which guarantees there is no trace of the original 1's and 0's left (in case you think "Big Brother" might try to look at your old pictures).

 

Generally an in-camera format is desirable and adequate. If a card is giving trouble with lost or corrupted pictures even with camera reformatting, then a computer hard format followed by a camera format may put the card back on good behavior.

[SJP]

The in camera format does NOT write zero's to all memory positions on the card all it does is write a new directory/allocation table. This explains why it is so fast even for big SD cards. Therefore deleting the files or formatting in camera does not make any difference (unless you do a FULL format in the card reader, which takes a few minutes). If you use delete in the card reader or the camera then it makes sense to do an occasional format to recover lost clusters. Maybe once every few months would be enough for that.

[Tenor1]

Thank for those explanations gentlemen. How do you format in the card reader? I only get a message of deleting images?

 

Thanks,

Carlos Marques

[biglouis]

Thank for those explanations gentlemen. How do you format in the card reader? I only get a message of deleting images?

 

Thanks,

Carlos Marques

 

In a card reader you would use whatever format program your operating system supports, e.g. in Windows you would right click on the drive representing your card and choose format. Personally, I wouldn't do this.

 

I always format the card in the camera to delete all images. With an M8 the process is so dead simple I can't see why anyone would want to individually delete images, unless they are out in the field and need to free up room on the card.

 

My processing, which is similar to a lot of others is that after a shoot I 'upload' all images into seperate folder through Lightroom then when I am satisfied I have everything I put the card into my M8 then format the card to erase all images and 'reset' it for next use.

 

Hope this helps.

 

LouisB

[farnz]

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Thank for those explanations gentlemen. How do you format in the card reader? I only get a message of deleting images?

 

Thanks,

Carlos Marques

Carlos,

 

If you're using Win-doze:

 

1. go to Win-doze Explorer

2. find the drive letter that is mapped to your card reader

3. right-click on the drive letter

4. select format from the drop down menu

5. CHECK THAT YOU HAVE FOUND THE RIGHT DRIVE LETTER FOR YOUR CARD READER (AND NOT A HARD DRIVE THAT HOLDS APPLICATIONS AND DATA)

6. select "Yes" to the 'do you really want to format this drive?' question

 

 

Pete.

[SJP]

What do you do?

I transfer all the files from the card using the Capture 1 file transfer wizard, which starts automatically when I plug the card into the cardreader. Once it has done the transfer the wizard kindly askes me if I am sure that I want to delete all the files on the card. I click 'yes' and can then remove the card & replace it in the camera. I do not format the card when returning it to the camera. I do not see the point. This procedure seems to be 100% reliable.

[Ruhayat]

I've always reformatted cards inside the camera itself, just in case the cameras have their own native formatting protocols. Then I also discovered that formatting cards inside cameras is the best way to remove viruses that sometimes hop on the cards after attaching to an infected PC -- formatting on PCs or simply deleting images would not remove viruses such as 0o.com.

[george_b]

I do not format the card when returning it to the camera. I do not see the point. This procedure seems to be 100% reliable.

Clearly you have never had a problem - lucky you, I have and needed to resort to image recovery software to retrieve most of my images from the card and disregard the corrupt ones.

The easiest way IMHO is to remove the card from the camera (if you have a busy productive day you may have used more than one card anyway), put the card into a card reader plugged into a USB Port on you computer, copy the folder into your own filing system on your P/C and not where the download software wants to put. Put the card back in the camera and reformat.

When you get a problem with a corrupt card with valuable images and you MUST recover your images I'm sure that various contributers here will not doubt be able to guide you towards suitable recovery software.

[moipogi]

After I cover an event, I usually wipe the card clean using a wipe function in Mediarecover. Then I format it in-camera. This has worked before with a CF card which was error-prone. After I did a full wipe, the CF card behaved itself, up to this very day. . .

[John Thawley]

Well, it appears everyone has their own method backed by their own reasons.

 

I run stacked Lexar Firewire 800 card readers... I usually dump cards in multiples of two at the same time... roughly 700-800 images. I import directly into Aperture allowing Aperture to manage the files.

 

I NEVER... let me be clear... NEVER, delete images from the card until the card is put back in a camera and formatted prior to use. It makes no sense whatsoever to delete images from a card. I can think of a lot of reasons why you might need to go back and retrieve those images... and there is not a SINGLE advantage to deleting them. It will only lead to regret.

 

Furthermore, it is FAR MORE practical to get into the habit of putting a card in the camera prior to shooting and formatting it then. It's logical, it's simple and a easy and good habit to get into.

 

JT

[SJP]

Furthermore, it is FAR MORE practical to get into the habit of putting a card in the camera prior to shooting and formatting it then. It's logical, it's simple and a easy and good habit to get into.

No your method sucks big time, why format a card if you don't need to? A card is not vodoo. It works just like any other disk drive since the 5.25 inch floppies. You have a FAT and memory locations that can contain stuff, that all. If I were to lose any data after transfer & deleting (corrupted file & such) then all the info is still on the card for access, it only 'looks' as if it not there anymore. In fact the same applies to the in camera format you are advocating. You are not clearing the slate.

 

I strongly object to doing anything just because 'popular consent' says that it is better or whatever. Memory cards normally do what they are told to by the physics of electrons. Popular consent (....) got us the benifits of GWB-jr for 8 long years.

[John Thawley]

No your method sucks big time, why format a card if you don't need to? A card is not vodoo. It works just like any other disk drive since the 5.25 inch floppies. You have a FAT and memory locations that can contain stuff, that all. If I were to lose any data after transfer & deleting (corrupted file & such) then all the info is still on the card for access, it only 'looks' as if it not there anymore. In fact the same applies to the in camera format you are advocating. You are not clearing the slate.

 

I strongly object to doing anything just because 'popular consent' says that it is better or whatever. Memory cards normally do what they are told to by the physics of electrons. Popular consent (....) got us the benifits of GWB-jr for 8 long years.

 

How elegant? You're obviously someone we should all emulate and try to be more like.

 

Formatting the card in the camera is simply another way of deleting the images in total prior to shooting. It insures you are starting with a empty disk. NO WHERE did I state that formatting was a benefit. It's just a simple method of preparing the disk to shoot.

 

Regarding leaving the images on the disk until you're ready to shoot, what is the disadvantage? What is wrong with having them on the disk? If you've ever used Photo Mechanic, the dialogue box on import is quite specific in instructing you that this is a bad idea. Either way, leaving them isn't doing any harm.

 

I shoot nearly 150,000 frames per year. I make it a habit to do things in a manner that have a practical flow of consistency. Regardless of what you think, I'm fairly comfortable that I know what I'm doing. I think the tone of your response was way out of line.

 

By the way... is benifiits Bush's word or one of your own? Never mind, I think I'll try out the ignore feature.

[erl]

SJP, you are entitled to your views, as is everyone, but please express them a little more politely. It is quite easy to disagree without coming across with an ugly tone.

[SJP]

is benifiits Bush's word

feel free to replace one of the consnats where appropriate:D

 

I apologise, I was too strong in the wording of my reponse.

 

Nevertheless I stilll think it's voodoo - I don't like voodoo. Please don't keep telling me that the only obvious responsible way of using my SD card is to reformat the thing in the camera each time. It just defies common sense. I will happily mend my ways if anyone can explain why this would be better or more reliable.

 

ERL: sorry I just saw your posting, apologies to you as well.

[John Thawley]

feel free to replace one of the consnats where appropriate:D

 

I apologise, I was too strong in the wording of my reponse.

 

Nevertheless I stilll think it's voodoo - I don't like voodoo. Please don't keep telling me that the only obvious responsible way of using my SD card is to reformat the thing in the camera each time. It just defies common sense. I will happily mend my ways if anyone can explain why this would be better or more reliable.

 

ERL: sorry I just saw your posting, apologies to you as well.[/QUOTe]

 

I think you're completely missing my point. You are referencing technical issues. I am referencing practical issues.

 

It hurts nothing to leave the images on the card after ingesting to your computer. I'm saying... just leave them there. You never know when something may go awry .... worst case scenario, the files are still on the disk. That's it.... I'm just suggesting a reasonable passive model as a bonus bit of insurance. You do nothing.

 

Now... as a practical sequence to that.... you're now ready to go out and shoot pictures. Take your disk. Stick it in the camera and either delete the images (slow) or simply click on format and get the images off the disk. I'm NOT saying formatting is better than deleting. What I am saying is putting the step at the start of a shooting session is logical. Nothing to do with "format." Just wiping the disk using the path of least resistance.

 

For me, this is a logical, consistent series of steps that have a "natural" flow and has not been a bad habit. I'm not looking move zeros or do anything that is healthier for my cards... I have 30-40 cards... doesn't matter. I just like leaving the images on the card. It creates a passive second back-up for a short period of time.... I prep the card in the camera before I shoot.

 

Just and FYI.... and maybe why this makes more sense for my situation; Typically, I'm loading up 3 bodies to go out and shoot a session. I can be downloading 3 or 4 cards when I come back in. Or... I might be downloading even more in a hotel at the end of the day.

 

When I prepare to go out and shoot a session, I have a mental check list I go down with each body. I basically return all settings back to a personal "default" position.. throw in the cards, hit format and go on to prepping the next body. I hang all three around my neck... and off I go.

 

I'm simply offering a workable process to create good habits. The more I do habitually, the less prone I am to forget.

 

JT

[Tenor1]

Hi SJP,

 

A Nikon rep told us in a class setting that formatting completely removes all images from a card while erasing leaves a ghost image. But a college computer student said both methods accomplish exactly the same thing. That's why I posted the question.

 

Regards,

Carlos Marques

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[farnz]

... I will happily mend my ways if anyone can explain why this would be better or more reliable.

Stephen,

 

No 'way-mending' required. With the greatest respect, regular formatting of SD cards, or any re-writable media, is likely to maintain the card's capacity because the action of overwriting data on the card can lead to 'lost' clusters of data.

 

As has been discussed earlier in this thread (I think), deleting files simply deletes their header information from the file allocation table (FAT) but the bodies of the files are left intact (which is why it is often possible to retrieve files with specialist software after deleting them). But subsequent writing of new files to the card overwrites the bodies of deleted files in a fairly random fashion and can cause blocks of data to become separated, which are called clusters. If these clusters are not logged in the FAT because they've become separated from a larger block then they are called 'lost' because the FAT will be unable to allocate them for overwriting and the capacity of the card will reduce.

 

Formatting the card resets the FAT but it also does a quick write-read cycle to each byte on the card and logs the address of each byte that completes a successful write-read cycle, which restores the lost clusters and resets the card's capacity.

 

This is my understanding of the process but I am happy to be corrected.

 

Pete.

[Tenor1]

I "think" that was what I said, LOL.

 

Thanks Pete,

Carlos Marques