Hakku Posted December 9, 2008 Share #21 Posted December 9, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, but even the widest of the Summarits - 35mm - is longer than a traditional "normal" lens on micro 4/3rds. An opportunity for some of the wider CV lenses though. And there are the Elmarit 28mm and the new Elmar 24mm lenses at somewhat affordable prices. Horst Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Hi Hakku, Take a look here Business results Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
delander † Posted December 9, 2008 Share #22 Posted December 9, 2008 Unfortunately Leica have ended up with nothing much new to sell for a period. The M8 remains a great camera that helps the user to produce great images and the M8.2 as a refinement is simply too expensive at the moment to sell in any real numbers. The new lenses, well 4 of them are incredibly expensive in a time of economic downturn. Their owner has a long term strategy in mind and enough finances to bring them back into profit. But I noticed that they are not that hopeful of making any real money over the next two years. The S2 is apparently 9 months away and will require a lot of funding before it makes any money. They must price it and its lenses correctly. Market sentiment and customer expectation is now that prices will decrease. Leica UK's intended price increase early next year seems crazy to me even if they are under exchange rate pressure. Nikon D3x? It's price will surely drop quickly to that of the Canon 1ds3. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #23 Posted December 9, 2008 The end of 2009 will be the start of better fortunes for Leica. The new products will be available and the brand strengthened, for sure. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 9, 2008 Share #24 Posted December 9, 2008 I, like many others, hoped that photokina would lead to a CL version priced around $2k which would have possibly saved their bacon. Instead they introduced a camera few Leica owners have wanted or asked for at a price point ($15 to 20 K Euros) that few will afford or buy. Look at the resistance Nikon is getting to the pricing for the D3x at $8K. I don't see their strategy working at all. If I were them, I would obtain the inner workings of the Panasonic G1 or Olympus micro 4/3rds version and build a CL around it. Price it at $2K and sell the heck out of it with both micro 4/3rds mount and M mount adaptor. I've never been a fan of the 4/3 cameras, just didn't see the point in them. But a Leica M mount micro 4/3 body as a kind of digital CL would definately make sense and wouldn't IMO end up being self competition for the M8 line, given the different sensor sizes. A cheaper (Voigtlander?) rangefinder or possibly an EVF would be OK. Hmmmm.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelle Lenatio Posted December 9, 2008 Share #25 Posted December 9, 2008 - a 14m€ negative swing resulting in a 7m€ loss ..... - Introduction of overly expensive products .... - Announcing an S2 system which will have very little clientele - A global crisis effecting not only producers but consumers as well - Very active competition in terms of size, quality and price Don't think it looks all that rosy .... All it needs is adapters for existing M lenses to the G1 and olympus 4/3 systems and theres the answer to Film M owners with M lenses.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted December 9, 2008 Share #26 Posted December 9, 2008 A year or more to carry a payroll of over 1,000 employees is not easy on the finances. It offers quite a dilemma because laying off people means losing your skill set and it may not come back for quite some time. Then if you have a new product and demand you lack the talent to produce it in quality and your product suffers from poor QA (M8 anyone?). Can or will Dr. Kaufman carry 1000 employees for another year? I guess we'll see but with businesses dying by the bushel you have to wonder. Look at Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Miami Herald and NY Times. What do they have in common with Leica? A certain level of arrogance toward customers and potential customers, a we know what's best for you attitude, advertising pricing out of line with what they deliver back, and a loss of focus on the future and technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #27 Posted December 9, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I recognise that Leica are not perfect - what company is - but have we not heard all this "the sky is falling, Leica is doomed" before - it's getting boring and candidates for my ignore list are growing in number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted December 9, 2008 Share #28 Posted December 9, 2008 Idle speculation. If I may summarise, what this constitutes is:- "A certain level of arrogance toward suppliers, a we know what's best for you attitude..." Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 9, 2008 Share #29 Posted December 9, 2008 - Introduction of overly expensive products .... - Announcing an S2 system which will have very little clientele All it needs is adapters for existing M lenses to the G1 and olympus 4/3 systems and theres the answer to Film M owners with M lenses.... Hi, Interested to see the market research that supports your first two points......or is that just YOUR opinion? Re. the second point, I'm a film M owner, but I've no desire for a G1/Oly thanks very much. That's just MY opinion of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic Posted December 9, 2008 Share #30 Posted December 9, 2008 "All it needs is adapters for existing M lenses to the G1 and olympus 4/3 systems and theres the answer to Film M owners with M lenses" """""""""" Armchairs CEO are back Have you tried the G1 with a leica lens ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted December 9, 2008 Share #31 Posted December 9, 2008 Let's assume that Leica prices the S2 at $15K US and the lowest priced lens is $6K. Just for fun, how many S2 + 1 lens do you estimate Leica will sell in first year? a) 1,000 5,000 c) 10,000 d) 20,000 e) More than 20,000 I predict less than 1,000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2008 Share #32 Posted December 9, 2008 Ok. That is your sales prognosis. Now please tell me how many Leica expects to sell, or what the break-even number is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2008 Share #33 Posted December 9, 2008 ..... but I've no desire for a G1/Oly thanks very much. Nor I, but those new lenses, now that is another story As for the price, I think most of us can see where that is comig from, and on analysis, it will be seen that the margin of profit is not as high as some seem to think. Mass products would be far more profitable, as the Albrecht brothers ( the owners of Aldi) have demonstrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelle Lenatio Posted December 9, 2008 Share #34 Posted December 9, 2008 Hi, Interested to see the market research that supports your first two points......or is that just YOUR opinion? Re. the second point, I'm a film M owner, but I've no desire for a G1/Oly thanks very much. That's just MY opinion of course. I think it stands to reason ....price of M8.2 is a tad on the high side, especially taking the economic recession into account, man potential buyers will wait until they have recovered their losses and/or have a more positive outlook into the future. As for S2 ... well it needs to prove itself first, its either make the product fault-proof and postpone the introduction until it actually is, or introduce a product with infant-illnesses which it is sure to have if introduced early in order to generate some funds..... And one doesn't need to be a marketing guru to see that the S2 will not be the single saviour of the the Leica company. You, might not be the "typical" leica user/customer .... or are you sure of the fact that you are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelle Lenatio Posted December 9, 2008 Share #35 Posted December 9, 2008 "All it needs is adapters for existing M lenses to the G1 and olympus 4/3 systems and theres the answer to Film M owners with M lenses" """""""""" Armchairs CEO are back Have you tried the G1 with a leica lens ? No dominic I haven't, but I could entertain the fact that I would if my current out of guarantee M8 would fail...... As for armchair CEO's are back .... all you need is some common sense and slight knowledge of how companies, small or big, fare with recession, money or lack thereof. It always comes out of the length, width or depth .... there is no 4th dimension no matter how "wishful" ones thinking is. I am not saying leica will throw in the towel, all I'm saying that it will not be easy given the current situation. There are and have been more "economically powerfull" companies going/gone to ground than Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 9, 2008 Share #36 Posted December 9, 2008 Ok. That is your sales prognosis. Now please tell me how many Leica expects to sell, or what the break-even number is. The only way to break even on the S2 is to spread its cost over lots of Rs and Ms. It's us little guys paying for the medium format wannabes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2008 Share #37 Posted December 9, 2008 Well, as long as the technology sickers through as well, that is fine with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share #38 Posted December 9, 2008 What is also interesting is an article in the 'Sueddeutsche Zeitung' on Saturday this week. In it Kaufmann mentions that the S2 is a technology statement,not where Leica are going to earn the 'bread and butter'. He continues that he would much rather have introduced the R10 first, but that this decision was taken by Lee, who is no longer there..he remains optimistic throughout the interview and confirms 2009 for the R10 launch.( ) cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted December 9, 2008 Share #39 Posted December 9, 2008 He continues that he would much rather have introduced the R10 first, but that this decision was taken by Lee, who is no longer there That's interesting. I was under the impression that Lee was more interested in reaching out to the "soccer moms". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2008 Share #40 Posted December 9, 2008 Their are other considerations than bottom-line sales figures. Dr. Kaufmann has proven that he is quite adept at managing technology firms, much more so than most or all of us. Plus Europe is a bit different from the States. Companies like Leica carry a considerable emotional content. Being the owner of Leica and seeing it through hard times comes with a large number of managerial brownie points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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