lars_bergquist Posted October 12, 2006 Share #21 Posted October 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is the 50 Asph worth an upgrade? I do not know.The 50 lux pre-Asph is a fantastic lens... and so is the 50 cron. The 50 Asph perhaps combines the good points of both lenses in 1 lens .. so you need just one ..... I owned a pre-ASPH Summilux 50 and a 'cron. I sold them both and now I own the ASPH. It is a fabulous lens. In my relatively honest opinion there's a lot of nonsense about bokeh. Bokeh is only about the unsharp parts, and they depend mostly it seems on how spherical aberration is corrected. The current Summilux is crisper than the old one, f-stop for f-stop, IN THE PLANE OF BEST FOCUS. Ergo, the difference between that plane and the unsharp part is greater in the ASPH., less in the old version. Some people are disturbed by this crisper look. That's OK, but don't confuse that with bokeh. When T-Max film was new I heard a Tri-X man complain bitterly about the lack of grain which he found spooky. He got a technically better image, and it disturbed him. Those people should get themselves a scratchy uncoated old Summar and a bayonet ring. The old badger that bites until he hears the crunch of bone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 Pre-ASPH vs ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 12, 2006 Share #22 Posted October 12, 2006 Lars that is what my plan is get the 50 asph than i just bought some Russian lens for 15 bucks and i am sure it is older than the hills and get some creamy look when i want it. Get the basic kit than play with some of these old obscure lenses for fun and different looks:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted October 12, 2006 Share #23 Posted October 12, 2006 I owned a pre-ASPH Summilux 50 and a 'cron. I sold them both and now I own the ASPH. It is a fabulous lens. Sounds familiar .. that's exactly what i did ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 13, 2006 Share #24 Posted October 13, 2006 Forgive my ignorance--like Guy, I'm coming from the R series / DMR. So a question for all you 50mm afficianados... Where does the Noctilux fit in here in terms of image quality and fingerprint? I know it's faster, but I don't see anyone mentioning it. So far, for the M8 I have ordered, I'm almost settled on the new 28 f2.8, the 35 cron, the 50 summilux ASPH or Noctilux, and the 75 ASPH (I'm keeping my R stuff, too, though, for now). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted October 13, 2006 Share #25 Posted October 13, 2006 Where does the Noctilux fit in here in terms of image quality and fingerprint? I know it's faster, but I don't see anyone mentioning it. (I'm keeping my R stuff, too, though, for now). Noctilux is a specialty lens ... it is a lot larger ... significant slower to focus and .. not unimportant: closest focussing distance is 1 meter where lux asph and cron focus as close as 0,7m. THis is not as close as anybody coming from a DSLR is used to .. so the 1m of the Noctilux may be a limitation. Noctilux as only 50mm lens is highly unusual in RF land .. most use a summicron or elmarit to carry around and use the noctilux at f1.0 or there about: so strictly in low light or for its special look at f1.0! The Noctilux vignettes at f1.0 (which is part of the character) and needs a ND filter to be of use shooting wide open in daylight! The Bokeh is swirly .. realy unique ... you love it or you hate it There are books writen about differences in fingerprint .. i suggest looking at on-line samples and judge for yourself .. this is very subjective territory! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 13, 2006 Share #26 Posted October 13, 2006 ...The current Summilux is crisper than the old one, f-stop for f-stop, IN THE PLANE OF BEST FOCUS. Ergo, the difference between that plane and the unsharp part is greater in the ASPH., less in the old version. Some people are disturbed by this crisper look. That's OK, but don't confuse that with bokeh.... Did you use the latest version (#11868) of the pre-asph 50/1.4, Lars? Comparing it to the 50/1.4 asph i find that the later is sharper from f/1.4 to f/4.0, mainly at f/1.4 where it is outstanding. But, in the same time, the OoF is sharper as well, which is quite visible at f/4 and f/5.6 on the R-D1 at least. The result is not as ugly as that of cheaper lenses of course but the backgrounds and foregrounds are too distracting for my taste where those of the 'lux pre-asph are pleasantly smoother. From f/8 to f/16, i don't see significant differences though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
basharing Posted October 13, 2006 Share #27 Posted October 13, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had the same question as the one who started this thread. (Thanks!) I ordered an M8, but I have to decide yet on a 50 mm lens. For me the unsharpness counts. Although I do value written recommendations, I would appreciate a picture very much. Two similar pictures taken at f/1.4 showing if there is any visible difference. If the standard reply is that you won't see any differences on screen, then according to my standards the difference is not large enough for me to throw in an extra 1500€. So again, could someone please show us the difference? I would sincerely appreciate it! Thanks a lot in advance, Bas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 13, 2006 Share #28 Posted October 13, 2006 ...could someone please show us the difference?... Not far from here but you'll have to tell the difference yourself: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/69091-post16.html http://www.leica-camera-user.com/69208-post19.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted October 13, 2006 Share #29 Posted October 13, 2006 Forgive my ignorance--like Guy, I'm coming from the R series / DMR. So a question for all you 50mm afficianados... Where does the Noctilux fit in here in terms of image quality and fingerprint? I know it's faster, but I don't see anyone mentioning it. So far, for the M8 I have ordered, I'm almost settled on the new 28 f2.8, the 35 cron, the 50 summilux ASPH or Noctilux, and the 75 ASPH (I'm keeping my R stuff, too, though, for now). James: As mentioned a few posts up, the Noctilux can be your only 50mm, but is best paired with a 50mm Summicron for when you don't need the speed. Yesterday there was a post by somebody in HK that had tried a M8 and he said of all the lenses he tried, including the 50mm Summilux ASPH, the Noctilux gave the best Leica like/3d images. He predicted the Noctilux will be sought after and go up in price once the M8 is introduced. Here are some Noctilux shots. http://www.leica-camera-user.com/people/7013-todays-noctilux-shots.html Here it is near the close focus limit, probably 1.5m, and wide open. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6985-summilux-m-50mm-f14-pre-asph-vs-asph/?do=findComment&comment=69537'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 13, 2006 Share #30 Posted October 13, 2006 I just ordered my 24mm and now i sit here with cash in hand for a 50mm and was going for the 50mm ASPH but the Nocti got some Mojo going on that is hard to ignore. Although I like the bokeh stuf alot I was thinking the 75 f2 would be better for it or at least that focal length like my 80 lux. But now having the 35 asph I am wondering if the Nocti would be a good choice. I saw it and it is big like a R lens which for me is not a big deal but this has me wondering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 13, 2006 Share #31 Posted October 13, 2006 Hi Guy, I'm sure you've read this Luminous landscape already, but I think the out of focus renderings of the 50/1.4 Asph and 35/1.4 Asph are gorgeous (different from the Noct. but easily as appealing to my eye). As I concluded in that article, F/1.4 RF lenses really hit a sweet spot - very fast but also fairly compact. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 13, 2006 Share #32 Posted October 13, 2006 The 1.4 just makes more sense all around. I loved my R 50 lux . Just the prettist files from it and so sharp wide open. Also maybe the non -asph is a touch softer in the background . I worry about the other things like CA and such. I think the Nocti is the EXTRA lens to have after the basic kit not really a primary lens. Just going to get the 50 asph and have the 3 lens setup 24,35 and 50 than get the other 2 after the camera gets here and see how they work the 15 and 75 for other folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 13, 2006 Share #33 Posted October 13, 2006 Guy, I've been playing with the Nocti this morning when I should have been working, slapped wrists. I'm only just into it and it's clearly going to be fun to work with, but it's not a quick lens to focus and it's quite big and surprisingly heavy. Putting it on an M6 and it's noticeably easier to focus than on an R-D1 - the correct point is easier to determine. I think the Noctilux is not a first 50mm lens to have; the Summilux is much easier to handle which I guess for a professional (instead of this amateur) would be important. I liken the Noctilux to having a sports car in the garage which you use at weekends. Great fun, different, but you wouldn't want to commute to the office in it. With the 24 Elmarit, 35 + 50 Summiluxes and the 75 Summicron, you will be very well set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 13, 2006 Share #34 Posted October 13, 2006 I agree Mark and that is the direction path i will take, I wll get the play lenses later after i get this under control. The only real question i had was the 2 75 mm. I know the F2 is drop dead beautiful buy just wondering about there looks. I have the 80 lux on the R and it is the dreamy lens i call it . I would expect the same on the M side on the 1.4 and the F2 more like the 90 apo R which is more clinical, on the M i going with the F2 though so i have both looks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 13, 2006 Share #35 Posted October 13, 2006 Have no experience of the 75 Summilux, but you can see from the lens designs that the 75/1.4 and 50/1 lenses are clearly related. Similarly, the 50/1.4 and 75/2 are related and I think that's reflected in the look you get. One other interesting thing is that the Noctilux is still made in Canada, I assume by Elcan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted October 13, 2006 Share #36 Posted October 13, 2006 pros and cons of buying from Hong kong vs US? they are a bit less$ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 13, 2006 Share #37 Posted October 13, 2006 In answer to Guy on the 75: I had the Summilux and traded it in for the Summicron Asph --which I believe is the nicest lens I own. I used it all summer with my M7. I was stunned by both its sharpness and glorious and true colors, at least as they were represented using Velvia. I anticipate the same thing will be true with the M8. A few weeks ago, following a thread that possibly Guy started on what were the right lenses to get for the M8, I concluded I would a) trade in my 28 Elmarit for a 24, and trade in my pre-Asph 50 Summilux for a Noctilux. And then -- Mark put this well -- I became persuaded I would be oppressed having it as my only 50mm. I couldn't see myself hiking in the mountains with the camera around my neck, if the Nocti, at 600 grams, was pulling me to the ground. So I traded in my pre-Asph 'lux for the Asph 'lux. And when the 24 and 50 arrive, my kit will be the 24 Elmarit, 50 Summilux Asph, 75 Summicron Asph, and the 90 Elmarit. I'll consider myself set... until I get a hankering for something superwide ;-) Can the M8 get here already? JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 13, 2006 Share #38 Posted October 13, 2006 John, good coverage of all the frame lines. As for ultra-wide, I'm sitting on the fence re the new Tri-Elmar, playing with the 21-24-28 finder shows how little difference there will be between the 16 and the 21 and I already have a 21. Might just be that the CV 15mm fills the bill perfectly with the finder set to 21. Just need to see how the vignetting is. And less, I'm eager to get the camera too. Somewhere in here are cameras with our names on them... and I'd be more than happy to drive down there to pick mine up... they needn't wrap it. LOL. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6985-summilux-m-50mm-f14-pre-asph-vs-asph/?do=findComment&comment=69656'>More sharing options...
kidigital Posted October 13, 2006 Share #39 Posted October 13, 2006 Guy, I think that you are wise to go with the 50ASPH before thinking about the Noctilux. For the photography you like to do it is much faster to focus. Also, if you think about all of the sunshine you have in AZ, you might not get much daylight use of the lens. As far as the 75/2 goes, it's a gorgeous lens. Like the 90/2 R APO it is very sharp, but to my eye, I really think that it is much better with colors making it less clinical than the 90/2 R. You definitely wouldn't be disappointed. Kurt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 13, 2006 Share #40 Posted October 13, 2006 Mark - the gate looks open to me. You don't think we could... oh, never mind. Cheers, JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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