ticanina Posted October 9, 2006 Share #21 Posted October 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was a little concerned as I use my macro-elmar 90mm a lot, with and without the macro adaptor and hopefully will use it on an M8. I checked it out and at maximum the lens protrudes less than 1mm past the bayonet mount at infinity fully collapsed whereas my 21mm elmarit (1990 pre-ASPH and a compatible lens) extends 6-7mm. Here's hoping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2006 Posted October 9, 2006 Hi ticanina, Take a look here Will collapsible lens really work on M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted October 9, 2006 Share #22 Posted October 9, 2006 Can the actual Elmarit 50mm be collapsed on the M8? Is possible a little redesign of this lens? Looking at the new Elmarit 28mm I think a new noncollapsible Elmarit 50mm could be designed for ultracompact size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 10, 2006 Share #23 Posted October 10, 2006 I contacted Leica USA and received the following reply: Howard Leica M lenses Essentially, most Leica M lenses can be used with the LEICA M8. Details on the small number of exceptions and restrictions can be found in the following notes. Usage is independent of the initial format of the respective camera - whether 18 27 mm (sensor size) for the digital LEICA M8 or 24 36 mm for the 35 mm models up to the LEICA M7, and also independent of the lens features - with or without the 6-bit coding in the bayonet (the latest version, see p. 86). Even without this additional feature, i. e. when using Leica M lenses without identification, the LEICA M8 will supply good pictures in all cases. Important: Cannot be used: Hologon 15 mm f/8, Summicron 50 mm f/2 with close focusing. Elmar 90 mm f/4 with collapsible tube (production period 1954 -1968) Can be used, but risks damaging the camera Lenses with retractable tubes can only be used with their tubes extended, i. e. their tubes must never be retracted into the LEICA M8. This is not the case with the current Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm f/4, whose tube does not protrude into the camera body even when retracted. It can therefore be used without any restrictions. Can be used, but precise composition is not possible The LEICA M8 has bright-line frames for focal lengths up to 90 mm (see p. 102). Therefore, when using longer focal lengths such as the 135 mm models, their image field in the camera viewfinder - which is very small to start with - can only be "determined" very imprecisely. Notes: Exposure metering is not possible with: Super-Angulon-M 21 mm f/4 Super-Angulon-M 21 mm f/3.4 Elmarit-M 28 mm f/2.8 with serial nos. earlier than 2 314 921. Dave Elwell Leica Camera Inc. / Parts & Technical Info 1 Pearl Court/ Unit A Allendale, NJ 07401 End of citation (I reformatted the above slightly for clarification.) Note: You are dealing with Leica. All current lenses can be used without restriction. Quit measuring and complaining. DON'T WORRY--IT WORKS --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 10, 2006 Share #24 Posted October 10, 2006 Howard, thanks for that - and for dave elwell's address (do you have his email? I need to request a small user-replaceable part) Seems like Leica is still getting the full official word out to the troops - plus the fact that there are two very different collapsible 90 f/4s around (original 50's version and the current macro) is likely adding some confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 10, 2006 Share #25 Posted October 10, 2006 Seems like Leica is still getting the full official word out to the troops - plus the fact that there are two very different collapsible 90 f/4s around (original 50's version and the current macro) is likely adding some confusion. Confusion indeed! Old collapsible 90/4 usable only if not collapsed, current with no compromises. At first I thought the current 50/2.8 collapsible wasn't included in the list and assumed that it would work. But then I re-read the Leica information, and I'm sure it is included under the heading of "Lenses with retractable tubes can only be used with their tubes extended." Amazing how there are so many sources, all with part of the info... --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 10, 2006 Share #26 Posted October 10, 2006 LCT-- I don't think the old 90/4 should be used--though that's a beautiful sample! Why should these be different for M8 and R-D1? Who knows? Different cameras with different shutters, I guess. Maybe the shutter of one is further in front of the sensor as well. I'm sure Leica did all they could to accommodate all their lenses, and Epson may have just let it go with the warning you posted. My guess is that for safety's sake Leica just ruled out all previous collapsibles, but that some may work anyway. I haven't seen an M8, but I would assume the shutter doesn't protrude in front of the image plane as much as the meter arm in the M5. Therefore I would guess that the various instructions for Dymo tape would work fine on the M8. But at the time the M5 came out, Leica USA was still able to repair almost all screw mount cameras, and screw mount lenses were very common, so it made sense for Leica to publish instructions for using them on the M5. Today it's probably better for them to work on current profits instead. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 10, 2006 Share #27 Posted October 10, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Howard, thanks for that - and for dave elwell's address (do you have his email? I need to request a small user-replaceable part) Dear Dave, please send me 1 Kodak KAF10500, regards Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 10, 2006 Share #28 Posted October 10, 2006 LCT--...Why should these be different for M8 and R-D1? Who knows? Different cameras with different shutters, I guess... According to your Leica source, i don't see significant differences, Howard. The 50/2.8 may be used not collapsed on both cameras, as i suggested above. Ruben, in practice, suffice it to put a shoe lace or anything else on the 50/2.8 like in my pic above: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/67098-post5.html You can then collapse the lens with no harm in a case for instance as i've done myself for 2 years on the R-D1. No brainer at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrj Posted October 10, 2006 Share #29 Posted October 10, 2006 Hi Howard I was interested in this bit of your information (thanks for it) Important: Cannot be used: Hologon 15 mm f/8, Summicron 50 mm f/2 with close focusing. I have the DR summicron which I love, but the above is ambiguous. I assume the lens will work in the normal range, just not in the close-up part (and someone said in another post it may only be the goggles that need adapting rather than a flange issue), did you get anymore info on this, or has anyone else? Thanks. I'll check with Leica UK on this in the next few days and post back if I get anything new. Nik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 10, 2006 Share #30 Posted October 10, 2006 My 90mm/4.0 collapsible Elmarit will collapse fully but barely, on my RD1. It was a close call as I could feel a little friction wear the lens was interfering with the side chamber by maybe a thosanth or so. Very scary. It works fine now but it was close and I had to clean the sensor after settling in. The main thing to remember is be very gentle. And any contact at all with the shutter is probably caput. I sure hope my 90mm will collapse on the M8 as it is a dynamite, extremely compact and useful combination on my RD1 and should be even better on the M8. A 135mm equivelant rig the size of a 50mm is something to behold. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 10, 2006 Share #31 Posted October 10, 2006 I have the DR summicron which I love, but the above is ambiguous. I assume the lens will work in the normal range, just not in the close-up part (and someone said in another post it may only be the goggles that need adapting rather than a flange issue), did you get anymore info on this, or has anyone else? Thanks. Nik-- I agree about the ambiguity. And I want to agree with your assumption that it is simply the close-focus finder--but I'm not sure. With the M5, people used the Dual-Range by cutting off the short black bar that projects behind the DR goggles. The bar was there to guarantee alignment with previous M cameras, but because the M5 was taller, the bar blocked mounting. That may be the solution for the M8 as well (though I hate to see the elegance of the design maligned ). But there is something ominous about the fact the lens is put in the "Do not use" category. It isn't listed as "can be used but not in close range." Although Leica has tried to get the word out, I think the message could be clearer. And I envy you the Dual-Range! I sure hope it can be used, though I guess Leica feels its purpose has now been filled by the 90 Macro. Do let us know what you find out. I'm very curious as well! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 10, 2006 Share #32 Posted October 10, 2006 Can the actual Elmarit 50mm be collapsed on the M8?Is possible a little redesign of this lens? Looking at the new Elmarit 28mm I think a new noncollapsible Elmarit 50mm could be designed for ultracompact size. Rubén-- "Can the current 50/2.8 be collapsed on the M8?" No. "Is a redesign possible?" I'm sure it is, but would you want it? Part of the reason for the compactness of the 50/2.8 is its Tessar/Elmar design. That's a very 'simple' optical design which requires approximately its full focal length distance from the image plane. In other words, a lens of that type and cost can't be made retrofocal. The 28/2.8 has the benefit of having about half the focal length of the 50/2.8. Lens flange to image plane on M bodies is approximately 27 mm, so the 28 fits in better with a compact design. I am also beginning to have second thoughts concerning my above recommendation of collapsing lenses partway. With the M5, Leica gave specific dimensions as to how far each lens could be retracted into the body. With the M8, they are simply saying "don't collapse the lens." I have no idea why there is that distinction, but it may be an important one. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathangraham Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share #33 Posted October 10, 2006 Thank you Howard for clearing this up for me - I guess it will be a shoelace or o-ring for my 50 2.8. I am happy the 90 mem is okay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrj Posted October 10, 2006 Share #34 Posted October 10, 2006 Howard I phoned Leica UK today on the DR, but the person dealing with this type of query is out til Thursday. The DR is a superb lens so I'm hoping its not a straight 'don't use' on the M8 Nik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted October 11, 2006 Share #35 Posted October 11, 2006 I am also very interested in an answer on the 50 DR, whether the lens just can not be used in the close range or that the goggles for close range don't fit without removing the tab. Please post the answer they give you. Thanks, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 11, 2006 Share #36 Posted October 11, 2006 The DR is a superb lens so I'm hoping its not a straight 'don't use' on the M8 I agree, Nik. Good performer with unique possibilities. Optical and mechanical precision all the way--the pure definition of Leica IMHO. Am I wrong--I think the DR takes a normal rear cap, right? So it shouldn't protrude into the body enough to cause damage. The only thing I can think of is the top plate of the M8 might protrude further in relation to the bayonet; that could mean that the mount for the close-focusing unit would press against the top plate when attempting to mount the lens. I've got no idea what the problem might be... --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrj Posted October 11, 2006 Share #37 Posted October 11, 2006 I agree, Nik. Good performer with unique possibilities. Optical and mechanical precision all the way--the pure definition of Leica IMHO. Am I wrong--I think the DR takes a normal rear cap, right? So it shouldn't protrude into the body enough to cause damage. The only thing I can think of is the top plate of the M8 might protrude further in relation to the bayonet; that could mean that the mount for the close-focusing unit would press against the top plate when attempting to mount the lens. I've got no idea what the problem might be... --HC Howard yes I agree about the precision, but also the rendition is what I like, it is sharp with a really smooth transition to OOF areas whilst retaining definition in OOF shapes. I checked and yes the DR takes the normal rear cap so here's hoping... Nik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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