cfc247 Posted November 8, 2008 Share #1 Posted November 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having read and scanned all 14 pages of the recent post of the Leica "look" on the Digilux 2, I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare that "look" of the D2 to a D-Lux 4? Although size was a big factor in why I ordered my D-lux4, I am also interested in a camera that would be able to provide a different perspective than my Nikon D200. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2008 Posted November 8, 2008 Hi cfc247, Take a look here D-Lux 4 images compared to Digilux 2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elgenper Posted November 9, 2008 Share #2 Posted November 9, 2008 Having read and scanned all 14 pages of the recent post of the Leica "look" on the Digilux 2, I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare that "look" of the D2 to a D-Lux 4? Although size was a big factor in why I ordered my D-lux4, I am also interested in a camera that would be able to provide a different perspective than my Nikon D200. Thanks I own the Digilux 2 and the D-Lux 3, and the Digilux 2 beats its smaller sibling big time when it comes to image quality. The D-lux 4 is said to be an improvement, but hardly a quantum leap. I very much doubt it will be equal to the Digilux 2 either. That said, there are other advantages: the camera is smaller, raw shooting is far faster, & c. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackart Posted November 9, 2008 Share #3 Posted November 9, 2008 Having read and scanned all 14 pages of the recent post of the Leica "look" on the Digilux 2, I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare that "look" of the D2 to a D-Lux 4? Although size was a big factor in why I ordered my D-lux4, I am also interested in a camera that would be able to provide a different perspective than my Nikon D200. Thanks I really believe, that D-lux 4 is D-lux 3 successor, not direct comparison to Digilux 2. Latter is fully manuaul and ergonomic full size ragefinder. D-lux 3 had lot of noise in poor conditions due to small sensor size, same problem i believe will be with D-lux 4. I ordered also D-lux 4 but because of new F2 wide-angle lens. In good light conditions You are able to shoot very nice images with 1,6" 10 Mpix sensor. -Jaak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted November 9, 2008 Share #4 Posted November 9, 2008 You never know; the D-Lux 4 now has a similar Vario-Summicron instead of a Vario-Elmarit lens, closer sensor size, and can shoot RAW faster (meaning, it encourages you to use that format and get theoretically higher quality images). My D-Lux 4 is arriving next week, I'll still be keeping my D2, so we'll see. But absolute image quality (resolution, colour, etc) is only half the story that leads to the D2's distinctive "look", I think. It's also the superb manual operations and ergonomics, which make you want to take pictures all the time. And personally, the camera's design has helped me take much better pictures than I did with the Panasonic LC40 and FZ5 I had before I got the D2. These "intangibles" make you approach your pictures/photography differently. I know people always say it's the photographer not the camera, but I currently have the Ricoh GRD, Digilux 2 and Olympus E1 with Summicron-R lens, and each of the camera imposes its own subtle influence on the way I photograph (a lot looser on the GRD, more deliberate on E1, more shallower DOF close-ups on E1 vs wide angle event shots on GRD, etc). Just to make my point: the LC40 also had a Vario-Summicron lens (identical to that of the LC5, nee Leica Digilux 1). The lens character in black and white is similar. Yet I still used the camera a lot less than I have the D2, simply because it's a "digicam", with digicam controls, and as such does not inspire one to take "pictures" but rather just "snapshots". Sorry this is a bit long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted November 9, 2008 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2008 You never know; the D-Lux 4 now has a similar Vario-Summicron instead of a Vario-Elmarit lens, closer sensor size, and can shoot RAW faster (meaning, it encourages you to use that format and get theoretically higher quality images). My D-Lux 4 is arriving next week, I'll still be keeping my D2, so we'll see. But absolute image quality (resolution, colour, etc) is only half the story that leads to the D2's distinctive "look", I think. It's also the superb manual operations and ergonomics, which make you want to take pictures all the time. And personally, the camera's design has helped me take much better pictures than I did with the Panasonic LC40 and FZ5 I had before I got the D2. These "intangibles" make you approach your pictures/photography differently. I know people always say it's the photographer not the camera, but I currently have the Ricoh GRD, Digilux 2 and Olympus E1 with Summicron-R lens, and each of the camera imposes its own subtle influence on the way I photograph (a lot looser on the GRD, more deliberate on E1, more shallower DOF close-ups on E1 vs wide angle event shots on GRD, etc). Just to make my point: the LC40 also had a Vario-Summicron lens (identical to that of the LC5, nee Leica Digilux 1). The lens character in black and white is similar. Yet I still used the camera a lot less than I have the D2, simply because it's a "digicam", with digicam controls, and as such does not inspire one to take "pictures" but rather just "snapshots". Sorry this is a bit long. Maybe a bit long, but an accurate description of the psychological differences. My D-lux 3 is in my Digilux 2 camera bag... but only for those occasions where it's easier just to grab a snapshot. There's no way I'm going to struggle with manual settings on the D-Lux 3. The Digilux 2, for me, is a camera that you can make music with... while your shooting and in the results. It just feels good while your "making" pictures. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobeyone Posted November 9, 2008 Share #6 Posted November 9, 2008 I own a D-Lux 3 and a D2 and have to say the difference between the 2 is huge and doubt that the 4 is going to be a great improvement. I became frustrated with the 3, which is why I bought a used 2 and love it to bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemalk Posted November 9, 2008 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe I'm the one dissenting voice, but to me, the D-Lux 3 gives much better images and is more versatile than the LC1/Digilux 2 I use. The D-Lux 3 appears to give a bit more leverage in post-processing, even though it has a smaller sensor. I can only imagine the D-Lux 4 is even better. The feel of the Digilux 2/LC1 is something else altogether - it feels like a camera should, it handles well and it puts it far above any other digital camera. When it comes to image quality, though, I'd pick the compact D-Lux 3 most times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted November 10, 2008 Thank you for all your comments. I should be getting both cameras this week. A new Dlux 4 and a used Digilux 2. Does anyone know what the reliability on the Digilux 2 is like? I know the sensor issue (the one I purchased had it replaced recently) but besides that, is it a camera I can plan on using for years to come? Has anyone here owned it since 04' with moderate-heavy use and still finds it solid? Once I get the cameras I will try to post some pics later this week. My other dilemma is what to do with my Nikon D200 and a couple of lenses. Though I love the images that it produces, because of its bulk, I find myself forgoing photo opportunities on many occasions. Which is why I turned to the Dlux 4. But the manual controls, ergonomics and the "feel" of the Digilux 2 sounds like exactly what I have been looking for. I would just like to say that I have really enjoyed this forum. The people are very knowledgeable and responsive. Thank you for participation in this discussion! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted November 10, 2008 Share #9 Posted November 10, 2008 ... Does anyone know what the reliability on the Digilux 2 is like? I know the sensor issue (the one I purchased had it replaced recently) but besides that, is it a camera I can plan on using for years to come? Has anyone here owned it since 04' with moderate-heavy use and still finds it solid? Yes, I bought mine in ´04, and it has been in more or less constant use (the only camera I used for about 3 years). No problems whatsoever, besides small cosmetic ones. I still have the original sensor, btw. My other dilemma is what to do with my Nikon D200 and a couple of lenses. Though I love the images that it produces, because of its bulk, I find myself forgoing photo opportunities on many occasions. Which is why I turned to the Dlux 4. But the manual controls, ergonomics and the "feel" of the Digilux 2 sounds like exactly what I have been looking for.... I did buy a D200 2 years ago, for fast action shots. For reasons similar to yours, it has seen very little use after the first euphoric months of owning it. Now my oldest son has it; I don´t miss it one bit. However, I did buy a Panasonic G1 a few days ago... . Nice, but it surely won´t relegate my Digilux to the cupboard; that´s where my D-lux 3 spends most of its time.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted November 10, 2008 Share #10 Posted November 10, 2008 Elgen, I would be interested to hear what you think of the G1, especially with regards to the D-Lux 3 (and maybe also Digilux 2). Maybe some sample photos too? The camera is still not available here in Malaysia. A user review from someone who has similar cameras to me would be invaluable. I'm so pleased with the 50mm Leica R when used with an Olympus E1, I'm now thinking of getting a second, smaller body to hold an Elmarit-R 28mm for general use. EDIT: and so that we don't hijack the thread, perhaps you could start a new G1 thread? (I'm asking too much, aren't I?) The ones we had before were based on conjecture before the camera was released into the wild, as it were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted November 10, 2008 Share #11 Posted November 10, 2008 Elgen, I would be interested to hear what you think of the G1, especially with regards to the D-Lux 3 (and maybe also Digilux 2). Maybe some sample photos too? The camera is still not available here in Malaysia. A user review from someone who has similar cameras to me would be invaluable. I'm so pleased with the 50mm Leica R when used with an Olympus E1, I'm now thinking of getting a second, smaller body to hold an Elmarit-R 28mm for general use. EDIT: and so that we don't hijack the thread, perhaps you could start a new G1 thread? (I'm asking too much, aren't I?) The ones we had before were based on conjecture before the camera was released into the wild, as it were. Well, since this is a Leica forum, I doubt the moderators would allow such a thread... Anyhow, there are several threads going on right now in the GetDPI forums: Other Cameras - The GetDPI Workshop Forums Also, Brian Mosley is hosting an extensive "G1 Diary" at the UK Photo Safari Group site: Olympus UK Photo Safari Group - Announcements The latter is a site where one must register (and be accepted) in order to login, but Brian can give you the details. In short: I like the G1 a lot! It is quite a unique camera. Of course, the kit lens isn´t of Digilux2 quality (but then, what is?), but as you say, both M and R lenses can be used with adapters (regrettably not available yet), and I plan to do just that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted November 10, 2008 Share #12 Posted November 10, 2008 Well, since this is a Leica forum, I doubt the moderators would allow such a thread... I forgot the new Panasonic no longer has a Leica-branded lens. Been too used to the status quo, it feels strange to have a Panacam with its own homegrown lens. Thanks for the links... I'll go check them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted November 10, 2008 Share #13 Posted November 10, 2008 Does anyone know what the reliability on the Digilux 2 is like? Hope to see your pics soon, Mark! Seeing the great results other people get with this camera always inspires me to go out and discover new things with it. I got mine secondhand early last year, but the original owner bought it in 2006. Shutter count is nearing 15k; I have other cameras so I don't use my Digilux 2 daily, although it's in my work satchel all the time, wrapped in a soft leather-like sleeve. It seems to survive the rough and tumble pretty fine, and is still using the original sensor. That said, the rubber came off the SD card door last month, and now the rubberised pointy edges around the lens are threatening to peel back more. Other than that, I've covered the entire painted metal parts in black tape, so the skin underneath is still flawless. One thing I have always noticed about mine is that it "whines" -- emits a continuous low electronic noise as long as the camera is on, but it's only audible when I have the camera to my eyes in a quiet room. And it gets noticeably warm after about 2 hours of use at events etc; could be the weather, as I live in a tropical country. But this never affected the pictures, so I've never had it checked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone. My cameras should arrive tomorrow. I'll try to get some shots up by Wednesday. Since we were on the D200 issue. Elgen or a anyone else, do you happen to know if there is a reputable adaptor ring for the D200 allowing it to take the R lenses? If yes, what are the considerations and adjustments in shooting one has to make? I am assuming no AF and some kind of tweek with metering? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted November 11, 2008 Share #15 Posted November 11, 2008 ....Since we were on the D200 issue. Elgen or a anyone else, do you happen to know if there is a reputable adaptor ring for the D200 allowing it to take the R lenses?... Sadly enough, it can´t be done (if the lens is to be focussed at infinity), because of the lens flange distances. There are adapters for Canon EOS, but not for Nikon. Here is a comprehensive table of flange distances for different mounts: Camera Mounts Sorted by Register Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted November 11, 2008 Elgen, thanks for the info. Are there any bodies that have the manual controls of a D200 that are able to take the Leica lenses straight on? I know that the Oly E1 and the Pany G1, and I guess any 4/3 body can do this, but do any of them have the manual operational control of the D200? I just hate DSLR bodies that make you scroll through a menu to change aperture/shutter/etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted November 12, 2008 Share #17 Posted November 12, 2008 If I may butt in as usual: I researched camera bodies to use R lenses on for about a month and the shortlist finally came down to 3: Olympus E1, Canon 30D and Canon 5D. The Canon bodies have R adapters that will give you focus confirmation, and they do better in low light. All three have large, bright viewfinders that make manual focusing a reasonable doddle; the 5D had the best one of all, and you can add a special screen to make it even easier to focus manually. But I chose the older and slower E1 in the end because of the colours of its images, which looked more natural and pleasing to my eye. Plus, I liked that it was such a basic camera, for a DSLR. I didn't go for the newer E3 because I didn't want to pay too much in case I decide I don't like the franken-R combination after all. But now with a 28mm Elmarit on the way, I'm already planning to get a 30D for my 50mm Summicron-R, which would give a nicer 80mm FOV compared to the 100mm I get on the Olympus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted November 12, 2008 Share #18 Posted November 12, 2008 If I may butt in as usual: I researched camera bodies to use R lenses on for about a month and the shortlist finally came down to 3: Olympus E1, Canon 30D and Canon 5D. The Canon bodies have R adapters that will give you focus confirmation, and they do better in low light. All three have large, bright viewfinders that make manual focusing a reasonable doddle; the 5D had the best one of all, and you can add a special screen to make it even easier to focus manually. But I chose the older and slower E1 in the end because of the colours of its images, which looked more natural and pleasing to my eye. Plus, I liked that it was such a basic camera, for a DSLR. I didn't go for the newer E3 because I didn't want to pay too much in case I decide I don't like the franken-R combination after all. But now with a 28mm Elmarit on the way, I'm already planning to get a 30D for my 50mm Summicron-R, which would give a nicer 80mm FOV compared to the 100mm I get on the Olympus. My vote for an Olympus, too. But a Digilux 3 is an excellent alternative, if one can be found (finally back to Leica contents... ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted November 12, 2008 Share #19 Posted November 12, 2008 Mark - I bought my D2 in March 2004. It made its first trip for service when the rubber covering began to bubble and lift and one of the lens controls (I don't recall if it was zoom or focus) began to feel gritty. Everyhting was done under warantee, and they installed updated software. The next trip back to Leica was for the sensor replacement, also free, and the camera came back with a new spare battery. All-in-all, very good reliability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted November 12, 2008 Thank you all for the helpful comments. Will the electronics on the lens work with the E1 or Digilux? Metering? AF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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