Slash Posted October 15, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 15, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi folks, I am on the hunt for a digital camera, and naturally, I ended up on the Leica site. Considering the plethora of permutations and combinations out there, I am completely confused and in complete decision paralysis! I'd really appreciate guidance on choosing a camera from those with the knowledge and experience to make that choice. About me, and what I'm looking for... I've used digital cameras belonging to mates, and have often been disappointed by the fact that the pictures dont quite capture the breathtaking impact that I tried to capture for posterity!! So, I got to reading up on the intricacies of photography... which is where things got really interesting (or completely out of hand!)! Complete confusion on the technical aspects of photography as well!! more tangled up than a kitten with a ball of string? you bet! So, in short, (1) this will be my first personal digital camera (2) should be compact so i can take it on free and easy trips (3) should allow me to mess with the settings so i can learn at least some of the ins and outs of taking impactful pictures (4) so i can eventually move on to more sophisticated cameras so i can actually capture those breathtaking moments for posterity! ok.. not so short... apologies! :> i am taking up photography as a serious hobby... and this is my first step. i'd appreciate any guidance from you on taking that step. cheers, Slash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Hi Slash, Take a look here Which Leica?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted October 15, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 15, 2008 Kiran - Welcome to the Forum. With the details you’ve given it would be difficult to give you any solid advice – From what you have written I can think of at least three cameras that might meet your needs . I suggest telling us a bit more. Please include: - The types of things you anticipate photographing most (such as landscapes, wildlife, people, interior, architecture, low light). - Other things you anticipate photographing - Your definition of actual size of a camera you consider to be compact Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted October 15, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 15, 2008 I agree with Stuart on this (no surprise there!), but based on what you have said so far, the D-Lux 3 or its newer variant the D-Lux 4 (or their cheaper Panasonic base versions) sprang to mind almost immediately. Depending on what you consider "compact" there is always the trusty Digilux 2 (now only available 2nd hand) which produces stellar quailty images, but is somewhat larger! Have a search in the photo forum etc for relevant threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted October 15, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 15, 2008 The D-Lux 4 is what came to my mind after reading the list of criteria, too. Although the definition of compact really depends on one's perspective -- compared to my "new" old Olympus E-1, the Digilux 2 is reasonably compact. In fact, enough so that these days I tend to take it everywhere with me, having bought a new satchel for work. Compared to the Digilux 2, the D-Lux 4 has the same manual flexibility to grow with you, and in addition it has: - brand new warranty - less worry of sensor failure (my D2 hasn't yet and I'm always wondering when it's going to go off on me) - compact form factor - more megapixels (if that's important to you -- it's not to me) - faster RAW write times (if that's also important -- not to me) Compared to the C-Lux 3, the D-Lux 4 is less pocketable and costs more but: - it should have higher image quality - it gives more room to grow later with the manual controls - the bigger size and nice heft makes it easier to hold steady - it offers a somewhat more extended "system" (well, a hotshoe, anyway) The other option would be the V-Lux, but that's a bit bulky to take with you all the time, in my experience. And then of course, there is the M8 with, say, a 35mm Summarit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4season Posted October 15, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 15, 2008 The top compacts by Canon, Ricoh, Sigma and Panasonic (Leica) are all very good. But to use these or any other cameras to their fullest potential, you need to practice and learn about light and composition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted October 15, 2008 Share #6 Posted October 15, 2008 The S2 is a compact MF camera:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted October 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) thank you all for the replies and pointers. Stuart... I'm a consultant by day and a beach bum by night! actually, if i had my way, that would be beach bum all day and night! :> so.. to answer your qn on what I intend to shoot... dramatic sunsets... stunning lightning meeting the sea in a storm.. blue sky and even bluer (apologies to the gramatically/semantically correct!) sea.. and people in kodak (should i call it leica here? :>) moments.. does that answer your qn or have i merely managed to transfer some of my confusion to you?! :> about compactness... i was thinking something that could easily fit in a slightly larger than a wallet kinda pouch, but i am fast rethinking that coz it appears that it would well neigh impossible to get it all in one package! sigh.. sounds a lot like other stuff in life, eh? most seem to be pointing me the way of the D-Lux4. i'll go check it out.. and most probably be back with more questions! if it isnt sacrilege to ask this in the leica forum.. thoughts on the canon powershot S5IS? mind you, i am pretty much giving up on the compactness requirement.. tis more important for me to learn photography. Brian... one more related qn.. panasonic makes cameras using leica lenses... how do they stack up against each other? a bit like ferrari and toro rosso? or is the difference too little to call at my level? (let me loose in one and i'd' crash either in a heartbeat!) Ruhayat... thanx for all that input. MP isnt the key important criteria to me.. used to be when i didnt know better. a bit like the time i used to think that the more horses the better... until i started riding and realised that what is more important is the linearity of the torque delivery, rather than top end horses considering the average street rider (even on the track) is unlikely to use em all. its just good for braggin rights. coming back MPs, I dont really see myself blowing up and printing a lot of pictures now.. so i guess a decent rating that lets me print (if i get lucky and get an exceptional shot right off the bat) say a 8x10 should more than suffice for starters.. cheers, Slash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted October 16, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 16, 2008 thank you all for the replies and pointers. <snip>... Brian... one more related qn.. panasonic makes cameras using leica lenses... how do they stack up against each other? a bit like ferrari and toro rosso? or is the difference too little to call at my level? (let me loose in one and i'd' crash either in a heartbeat!) <snip> cheers, Slash The differences are to be found generally in the in-camera firmware - Leica IMO tends to give a bit more subtle rendering; the warranty and after-sales service - Leica give better warranty; and possibly in the quality control during manufacture although that is a somewhat vague. Shooting RAW you may not notice much difference, at least initially. From what you say regarding your subject choice, I would aim for a Digilux 2 (with the sensor renewed - always ask), but YMMV. Buy from a reputable dealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted October 16, 2008 Brian... what is rendering? and YMMV? Cheers, Slash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andit Posted October 16, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 16, 2008 Hi Slash, Why not look at the new Canon EOS 1000D. It's tiny for a SLR, allows you to make use of interchangeable lenses and you can grow with the system as you progress down the road of photography. In addition to this the initial costs are quite low for this model. The Leica D-Lux 4 is an excellent camera, but does not allow you to make use of interchangeable lenses. The Canon on the other hand gives you an APS-C sized sensor, with, if I'm not mistaken, 10 megapixels. The other one to look at is the new Olympus SLR. The costs are higher than the Canon EOS 1000D, but it is in a different league in terms of build quality. Hope this helps you along a bit. Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 16, 2008 Share #11 Posted October 16, 2008 The only compact digital camera whose files will make your jaw drop when uploaded on your screen, is the Sigma DP1. However, it is not without quirks and warts as far as user friendliness is concerned, and has its limitations with a relatively slow, fixed focal length lens, wherefore it might not be the ideal beginner's camera. I'm only mentioning it because of your remark of having been disappointed with the results achieved with borrowed cameras. The DP1 is in a class of its own among the compacts as far as image quality is concerned. Having been dissatisfied with the IQ of several so called "high end" compacts, including Leica D-Lux3, Ricoh GX100, Canon G9, I recently purchased the Pana LX3 and am really happy with its performance, especially also under low light conditions. It is a significant improvement over the D-lux3. The Leica D-lux 4 or it sibling, the Pana Lx3, should allow you to achieve excellent results as you will progress from beginner to demanding enthusiast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted October 16, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 16, 2008 Kirin - "YMMV" means, "Your mileage may vary" and directly refers to a statement in advertising in the US of expected fuel economy (miles per gallon, or “mileage”) in automobiles. “Rendering”, if I can speak for Brian, refers to the overall appearance of the image captured by the camera – the effect of the camera’s programmed in settings on the resulting image. Your description of what you want to shoot suggests either just a wide angle lens and a lot of footwork (approach and retreat from subjects), or a zoom lens that has a wide angle of view at its wide end, allowing you more latitude in composing your shots. I suggest the latter, and have two recommendations. The Leica D-Lux 4 and the Panasonic equivalent allow you to make the adjustments you wish in order to learn more about photography, and have a zoom lens covering the range you are most likely to need. It is also quite small, almost meeting original your “compact” requirement, and probably the only camera in this size range that gives you this kind of control (it also allows you to use it fully automated, as a “point & shoot” camera). As noted above, there is little difference in the cameras, the major ones being longer warrantee with the Leica, a larger SD card in the package, and better post processing software also in the package. Is it worth the price difference? That’s a personal question, and part of the answer involves how much you value the Leica name/logo. Considerably larger than the D-Lux 4, and only available used is the Digilux 2, also mentioned above. If you go into the India photo galleries on my site you’ll find 70% of those photos were with that camera. The camera is relatively compact, so quiet that people posing for you will wonder when you are going to take the picture even after you took it, and the image quality, even in jpeg form is outstanding. Mine is quickly approaching 5-years old and I still use it frequently in spite of having other cameras. If you have any more questions please pose them. As you’ve seen we’re very open with our opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted October 16, 2008 Kirin - Your description of what you want to shoot suggests either just a wide angle lens and a lot of footwork (approach and retreat from subjects), or a zoom lens that has a wide angle of view at its wide end, allowing you more latitude in composing your shots. you suggesting i do this??! so.. .D-Lux4 or the equivalent, Panasonic LX3. hmmm... one of the problems i just came up against is the absolute lack of dealers for leica in india. there is just 1, in mumbai. so, if something requires servicing, i'm likely to be in a rather tight spot... ecaton.. you mentioned the "fixed focal length" as being a drawback. how does the focal length being fixed or variable affect the picture? Slash Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/65501-which-leica/?do=findComment&comment=686113'>More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 16, 2008 Share #14 Posted October 16, 2008 you suggesting i do this??! so.. .D-Lux4 or the equivalent, Panasonic LX3. hmmm... one of the problems i just came up against is the absolute lack of dealers for leica in india. there is just 1, in mumbai. so, if something requires servicing, i'm likely to be in a rather tight spot... ecaton.. you mentioned the "fixed focal length" as being a drawback. how does the focal length being fixed or variable affect the picture? Slash It does not necessarily affect the picture, but rather the way of how to compose it (although fixed focal length lenses tend to be of higher quality than zoom lenses). The focal length with the DP1 is the equivalent of a 28mm lens. Great for landscapes, cityscapes, interiors (with some limitation) and your only zoom would be your feet. With the D-Lux 4, you'd have a zoom lens covering a 24-60mm range and allowing composing your shots without as much footwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andit Posted October 16, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 16, 2008 Fixed focal length means that you can not zoom into the object. If you have a fixed 28mm lens on the camera, all images that you take will be at 28mm. If you want the object to appear larger on the image, you have to move closer to the object - hence foot zoom. A zoom lens allows you to change the magnification of the object, by either zooming in or zooming out, without changing your physical location (i.e. moving from where you are standing). The purists of photography will tell you that the only focal length that you should be using is in the range 45mm to 52mm which corresponds more or less with the magnification that the human eye see's. Basically it's cheating by putting a really large lens on a camera and taking an image of, for instance, a lion. You did not see him the way that the camera saw him. Likewise for panoramic shots - the camera can take in more than what the human eye can see at any one moment. But this is besides the point. If you do purchase the D-Lux 4 from your dealer in Mumbai, I would not be too concerned about servicing troubles. These camera's are extremely reliable and you have a 99.5% chance that nothing will go wrong. Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted October 16, 2008 Share #16 Posted October 16, 2008 Does Panasonic have a service centre in India? If so, I'd go for the LX-3. It's nice; I might just sell my D-Lux 3 to get one. A similar camera I would look at would be the Canon G10 or Ricoh GX100 (don't really like the GX200 image quality). Or, wait until next month for the new Panasonic G1 mini-SLR to come out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted October 25, 2008 What would be a sensible price for a used D-Lux3? Around USD300 make sense? regards, Slash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted October 26, 2008 Share #18 Posted October 26, 2008 What would be a sensible price for a used D-Lux3? Around USD300 make sense? regards, Slash Might be a bit low. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostatic Posted October 28, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 28, 2008 What would be a sensible price for a used D-Lux3? Around USD300 make sense? regards, Slash They seem to be holding used value very well - more like $500 plus or minus. I agree with DLux4/LX3 (I love my DLux3), and also would add Ricoh GX200 to the mix (or the GRD2, which is a fixed 28mm lens). All of those shoot raw and allow for flexible approaches. Some prefer the handling of the Ricoh, others think the image quality on the Panaleica is superior. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted June 25, 2009 Hi all, Been a while since I got on this site, after that barrage of questions. Quick update on this is.. i got the Pana Lx-3. And I love it! Do images from this camera qualify for posting to the site for review / comment? (Leica glass used and all that! ) regards, Slash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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