kenneth Posted October 1, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Rather than lead a thread with my thoughts on what I believe to be a good second body to match the M6 that I already own, I would like to throw the discussion open and say "What would you say is the best buy M camera to fulfill my requirements?"*Price is important but at the end of the day performance and reliability are paramount. Forget black or chrome unless you feel one finish attracts a lower price than the other. I wish to use this camera for mainly B&W film stock and maybe Colour Reversal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Hi kenneth, Take a look here Second body to pair with an M6 . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted October 1, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 1, 2008 I thought you'd already decided on an M4P? And what happened to the M2 you were thinking of? Why not another M6? Why not tell us how much you are prepared to pay and have done with it? Don't forget, any Leica M doesn't care what film you put in it, so the film is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion, really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 1, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 1, 2008 I thought you'd decided an ND filter would mean you don't need a second M body?! What do you want the extra body for exactly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted October 1, 2008 I thought you'd already decided on an M4P? And what happened to the M2 you were thinking of? Why not another M6? Why not tell us how much you are prepared to pay and have done with it? Don't forget, any Leica M doesn't care what film you put in it, so the film is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion, really. I would say, what do I need to spend?- I would say that if money was not the criteria then I would buy a chrome MP but as it is I wish to spend wisely, hence opening the discussion to cover the Leica M range. This question can only attract members own personal choice which I fully understand and to show how broad the question is someone suggested a Voigtlander Bessa T as a good back up camera to an M6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted October 1, 2008 I thought you'd decided an ND filter would mean you don't need a second M body?! What do you want the extra body for exactly? From kind advise given and gratefully received, I see the drawbacks in going the ND route. But point scoring does not serve any purpose. In answer to point two of your question. I am considering a second body for additional B&W and Colour Reversal film choice- Thank you for that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted October 1, 2008 Share #6 Posted October 1, 2008 I personally got an M7 to accompany my M6. Actually, I was going to replace the M6 with the M7, but decided having a backup camera is a good idea, and in some situations, I might want two cameras at the same time. Works for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted October 2, 2008 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since I got the MP a few weeks ago, I've been carrying two bodies loaded with different film. I find it's very convenient for switching lenses also. One I carry around my neck and the other slung over my shoulder, allowing me to keep both straps at about the same length without knocking the cameras together. It's easy to get used to this multiple body lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 2, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2008 Kenneth, I'm not point scoring but I don't see any point in starting numerous threads asking the same question. Also, have you tried using the search facility? There are many previous threads discussing the merits of the various M cameras. FWIW I would advise you to buy one of the following; M2, M3, M4, M4-2, M4-P, M5, M6, M6 TTL, M7, MP. Any of these M's will suit your purposes, the actual choice comes down to personal preference, budget, choice of lens (viewfinder frames/magnification) and whether one wants a built in meter or not and/or AE. Your original idea of buying an M2 would be my choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mym6is12 Posted October 2, 2008 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2008 Why not another M6? That's what i would do : e.g. if it's a 'classic' M6 then best stick to that - Ideally, I would not like to have two cameras with shutter dials going the opposite ways. Colour reversal and B&W have very different metering/shutter accuracy requirements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leitzmac Posted October 2, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 2, 2008 Go with two M6, although the majority of Ms operate similarly there are differences and with two cameras around your neck switching from one camera to another of the same type is a more seamless experience. Although I have a few different bodies, when intend to use two bodies at once (say b+w and colour, wide lens and telephoto etc.) I tend to use two M6 because it makes it easier. There will be arguments for and against, it's really a matter of taste, incidentally I like to carry an M4 with me because - to some this may sound trivial, but it has a self timer (like many other early Ms) which is handy for some of the work I do, but crucially it is essentially an M6 minus the internal meter. Hope that helps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 2, 2008 Share #11 Posted October 2, 2008 Kenneth, The choice of a second body does deserve careful consideration, but unfortunately the answer depends very much on your own shooting practice and requirements. For example, and in my opinion, if you are slowly shooting landscapes with your kit in a case/bag until it's called upon, it hardly matters what M's your using, whether they have meters or not, and what film they contain. You've time to adjust whilst you withdraw the camera, change the lens and get on with the shot. Same for much city shooting. However, change that to a low-light, fast moving, paid for the job scenario, street shooting, environmental portraits, or wedding photography and every decision on body, lenses and film become critical because under pressure you need fewer obstruction. Carrying different film in two bodies means that you have to change lenses frequently under pressure and that can cost shots. Different body colours, or body types helps a lot and auto-metering can be a great benefit. The human brain can cope with differing controls on two cameras with a little practice. Also, different films in two bodies reduces the number of shots per film type from 72 to 36, so I see benefit in using one film stock where you can. Two M bodies with different lenses and the same speed colour neg film is how I best and most easily shoot 500 frames in an afternoon assignment. From your interest in M2 etc, I presume that you will be shooting more slowly and so I suggest that your choice should down to what takes your fancy on the day and another M6 would be an easy decision. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leitzmac Posted October 2, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 2, 2008 Rolo makes a couple of good points, perhaps a different colour M6 would be a good idea if you are shooting different film speeds/colours, for instance 3200 in the chrome body, 400 in the black-chrome body, you know immediately which is which, but they function identically. It would be wonderful to be able to always shoot with the same film (rated the same) in each body, however for me personally I often need drastically different film speeds within a short space of time, shooting wide open on fast lenses doesn't always offer enough light. You could argue that I could just shoot on really fast film all the time shooting 1600/3200 in both bodies, but I often feel the grain (particularly in 3200) can be prohibitive, so use it out of necessity rather than for art means or the convenience of having two identical films loaded. I agree with Rolo regarding changing lenses and missing shots, I've certainly done that in the past, I've also made the mistake of using a handheld meter, taking a spot reading for the film in one body and then shooting a frame on the other body (different film speed) before realising my mistake, however that highlights one of the beauties of the built in meter in the M6, you rarely make that mistake, although to be fair, it's a mistake more likely done when shooting on two meter-less Ms! Really it's 'Horses for courses', so often photography features an element of compromise, but for me it's about compromising as little as possible. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted October 2, 2008 Share #13 Posted October 2, 2008 This may be considered a sinn on this board, but maybe consider a Zeiss Ikon. It will give you the benefit of AE w/o busting the bank. I would not go for any of the older Ms because of the lack of internal metering and the M5 is just too big. If you are used to using an M6, then going to an M4, for example, would be a real hassle. So that really leaves you with an option of an M6, MP or M7. Do you really need a backup camera for the M6? One thing great about the film Leicas is that they have very high durability issues. The decision to get more then one Leica body is really based on want, and not need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 2, 2008 Share #14 Posted October 2, 2008 This may be considered a sinn on this board, but maybe consider a Zeiss Ikon. It will give you the benefit of AE w/o busting the bank. Burn the Heretic! Burn the Heretic! I would not go for any of the older Ms because of the lack of internal metering and the M5 is just too big. If you are used to using an M6, then going to an M4, for example, would be a real hassle. Steve, that's your choice, but many of us, myself included, have gone from metered Ms to unmetered and to LTMs precisely because of the lack of internal metering. I have "gone from" an M7 to an M2 and taken to it like a duck to water. An internal meter is nice, but not essential for decent, or enjoyable photography. As to your comment about a Zeiss Ikon, if we are going that way, why waste your money on an Ikon? There are a number of models of Voigtlander R that would fit the bill and share the same tinny innards at a much lower price. Personally I dislike them for handling reasons, but there are those who disagree. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 2, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 2, 2008 If I think back just a few years to the time I started shooting weddings with an MP and an M3 and consider the anxiety caused by not planning the camera strategy, it still sends shivers down my spine. I had colour film in the MP and B&W in the unmetered and different viewfinder magnification M3 with 4 lenses and a hand held meter. On clear sky days I also used two ND filters of different rating on two of the lenses. So B&W on the M3 with a wide lens was not easy, but swopping the 90mm from the M3 to the MP for a colour head shot might mean removing the 24mm from the MP first; putting the cap on, transferring the 90mm to the MP, taking off the hood and 3xND filter; withdrawing the 50mm from the bag, removing the cap and fixing on the M3; shooting the MP. When the time came to shoot the M3, remembering that the high speed B&W film needed an 2xND filter for the 50mm with a mental adjustment for a meter reading, or a new reading with maybe a setting of the meter iso speed. Then inside we'd go and the ND filters had to come off, faster lenses only could be used, high speed colour film into the MP, meter adjustments and breath holding 1/15s image stabilisation ... Arrrghh. Soon after it became one film choice with B&W conversions in PS and preferably one lens per camera body for the whole day. Then it went digital with a whole new set of issues. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted October 2, 2008 It's official, Bill sort of already knows. I have ordered a mint M6 classic 0.72 in, you've guessed it, chrome just like the one I have but newer- £670+ 6 months warranty from a company based in North Yorkshire. A deep heart felt thank you to all who have participated in this journey with. I hate buying anything so I find it very stressful and as I have been retired a good many years through ill health I also need to spend my limited resources wisely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted October 2, 2008 Share #17 Posted October 2, 2008 Burn the Heretic! Burn the Heretic! Steve, that's your choice, but many of us, myself included, have gone from metered Ms to unmetered and to LTMs precisely because of the lack of internal metering. I have "gone from" an M7 to an M2 and taken to it like a duck to water. An internal meter is nice, but not essential for decent, or enjoyable photography. As to your comment about a Zeiss Ikon, if we are going that way, why waste your money on an Ikon? There are a number of models of Voigtlander R that would fit the bill and share the same tinny innards at a much lower price. Personally I dislike them for handling reasons, but there are those who disagree. Regards, Bill Your point is well-taken. I was just speaking for myself. But there is a difference from going unmtered in totality and having an unmetered backup when you're used to shooting a metered camera. If nothing else, those older Ms sure seem to be a lot better built then the M6, and that's saying , because the M6 is built like a tank. Maybe the M6 becomes the backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATB Posted October 2, 2008 Share #18 Posted October 2, 2008 I would say that if money was not the criteria then I would buy a chrome MP but .... Use your M6 and enjoy it until you can get a chrome MP. We are not talking about sports cars, diamond encrusted wrist watches, yachts, etc. here. I am sure you can save up the difference given enough time. Othewise, you will keep on thinking about it. So buying a substitute is actually more expensive. This applies to any gadget Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 2, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 2, 2008 It's official, Bill sort of already knows. I have ordered a mint M6 classic 0.72 in, you've guessed it, chrome just like the one I have but newer- £670+ 6 months warranty from a company based in North Yorkshire. A deep heart felt thank you to all who have participated in this journey with. I hate buying anything so I find it very stressful and as I have been retired a good many years through ill health I also need to spend my limited resources wisely. I think you made the right choice, you know you will be happy with it. Enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted October 2, 2008 Thank you James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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