Summicron 50mm question (problems when mountet on a R-D1)

[NL-S]

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Have been advised to crosspost this from Dpreviews Leica forum.

 

Greetings all.

 

Lately I required an Epson R-D1 + Summicron 28mm + Summicron 50mm.

 

 

The R-D1 + 28mm works beautifullly, however have trouble with the 50mm (see description below). Have got some good help at the Rangefinder R-D1 forum, and it essentially boiled down to the culprint *maybe* being 2 slight slopes on the bronzelike cylinder seen at the base af the lens - se pictures below.

 

Can you kind people advise me if these slopes are ment to be there? Lens SN is 2794xxx, upgraded with 6 bit chip.

 

Description of problem: Mounting the 50mm summicron gives a certain oneven resistence when focusing, clearly more so in the long end, and allmost (or completeley) gone when focusing close - also its much more pronounced when focusing out towards the long end, than visa versa. This is coupled with the rangefinder screens "jumping", and in effect impossible to "melt together". OBS: the 50mm works smoothly and with no problems when no camera is mountet.

 

Kind Regards

 

Niels

 

 

 

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[lct]

Welcome to the forum I had a 50/2 like yours in my youth but i don't remember if it had 2 little slopes or one like on my later #11819 version. Mine does not look like a bump anyway. It has been obviously machined and both sides of it are not at the same level. Now i wonder if the rigid Summicron had not 2 slopes as well. Anyway i'm not sure if those slopes or bumps are the culprits so i can be of little help i'm afraid. I would show the body and the lens to a good repairer if i were you.

[Knorp]

Hi Niels,

sorry about your cron, mine although with a lower serialnumber (1963xxx) has these two "slopes" as well, but it has not been coded because I rarely use it on my m8, most of the time it's mounted on my mp. You say that the problem starts near infinity, could it be that the back end of the lens hit something inside your camera ?

BTW - it's not much help to you, but my cron focuses smoothly all the way to inifinity.

[NL-S]

Thanks and hello lct

 

And thanks Knorp, seems you send me back to base one

 

You say that the problem starts near infinity, could it be that the back end of the lens hit something inside your camera ?

 

This clearly uneven "scratchy" turn of the focus ring starts as low as the 0.8-1 meter focus mark, sometimes a little further out even (not exactly same point each time). The focusing turns stiff all way out - and uneven. One clearly has the impression that there is "something scratching something" - and not in the positive way.

 

Strange thing is that when "rolling back" (turning focus ring from infinity >> close), the ring turns absolutly smooth. And please remember that when lens is unmountet all is fine.

 

Suggestions wellcommed indeed!! However it looks like a trip to the Leica facility that I live reasonably close by - two problems though 1) Same facility has my Nikon D300 for repair 2. time out now = no camera 2) My car is at the local garage - and waiting for parts on back order

 

Sometimes one has to take a deep breath and think possitively: Still got the R-D1 + Cron 28mm.

 

Kind Regards

 

Niels

[Knorp]

Thanks and hello lct

 

And thanks Knorp, seems you send me back to base one

 

You say that the problem starts near infinity, could it be that the back end of the lens hit something inside your camera ?

 

This clearly uneven "scratchy" turn of the focus ring starts as low as the 0.8-1 meter focus mark, sometimes a little further out even (not exactly same point each time). The focusing turns stiff all way out - and uneven. One clearly has the impression that there is "something scratching something" - and not in the positive way.

 

Strange thing is that when "rolling back" (turning focus ring from infinity >> close), the ring turns absolutly smooth. And please remember that when lens is unmountet all is fine.

 

Suggestions wellcommed indeed!! However it looks like a trip to the Leica facility that I live reasonably close by - two problems though 1) Same facility has my Nikon D300 for repair 2. time out now = no camera 2) My car is at the local garage - and waiting for parts on back order

 

Sometimes one has to take a deep breath and think possitively: Still got the R-D1 + Cron 28mm.

 

Kind Regards

 

Niels

 

Hey Niels,

then I still don't get it: the lens turns smoothly all the way when not mounted.

So why send it to Leica ? What about the Epson ?

[Shootist]

Sounds like the roller on the arm in the camera that moves the rangefinder is not hitting the cam on the lens correctly. If this only happens with the 50mm Summicron then it could be the lens is off but it may be the arm that holds the roller. Check the cam on the back of the lens for any burrs or marks or some type of deformity. On the roller on the camera check for marks that the cam on the lens is riding above the roller.

 

On Leica cameras that arm that hold the roller can be bent, by a QUALIFIED technician with the correct TOOL, so it hits the lens cams in the right place. Not sure if your R-D1 is the same.

[NL-S]

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Knorp: You are right of course that the heart of the matter more and more seems to be the R-D1 (ref also Shootist' post). I was entering this thread thinking that the culprint was the two tiny slopes on the 50mm, however this is now highly unlikely thanks to you :=) When delivering the camera for inspection/repair it might be a good idea to let the 50mm follow as well - so...

 

Shootist: Thanks, will do! Have done this initially (before this thread), but will have a second look. This time plenty of time, good lights, a lupe and some coffee please!

 

Thanks all!

 

Kind Regards

 

Niels

[NL-S]

Greetings all!

 

Just though Id update. When inspecting closely again as suggestet by Shootist I indeed found tiny marks and debris on the inside of the lens as well on the top of the camera roller. I have in the meantime bought a 1998 50mm Summicron which works perfectly - as does my 28mm Summicron.

 

Please relate to picture at the bottom of this post.

 

The diffrence between the old 50mm (1973 AFAIK) and the new 1998 model (when addressing this problem) is (I am pretty sure) relatet to the different setup of the focusing cylinders that contact the roller on the camera. There is a 3mm diameter difference, or in effect the "old" cylinder ha a 1.5mm wider contact point on the roller. I dont know the size of the roller on the M8 - or indeed on other Leicas - but on the R-D1 its 3mm, so a 1.5mm difference is substantiel.

 

Or as Shootist puts it: "Sounds like the roller on the arm in the camera that moves the rangefinder is not hitting the cam on the lens correctly"

 

I suggest this difference is introduced when the new 50mm Summicron was introduced, in 1994. For other lenses this might be an issue as well, and might explain "unexplainable" incompatabilities.

 

Cross posting to the Rangefinder R-D1 forum.

 

Kind Regards

 

Niels

 

PS: When creating post picture shows, however then vanish.. Ah well..