The best idea for the Digilux 4

[jrethorst]

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Leica should take the Digilux 3 case, no changes on the outside and, on the inside:

 

1. substitute an EVF for the SLR/Porro prism. In 2008, it would probably be finer resolution and faster than the 2004 Digilux 2 EVF.

 

2. Drop 4/3, and have the Digilux 4 accept Leica R lenses, with as much functionality as possible. I think that would be manual focus but program auto (as well as aperture and shutter priority) exposure. And there are a lot of R lenses on eBay.

 

3. Use a full-frame sensor. That's where the market is headed, and the R lenses, which will produce a full-frame image on film in a box about the size of the Digilux 3, would support it.

 

4. Make it in Japan for a reasonable amount of money.

 

What a camera that would be.

[andybarton]

I think that all of your points (bar one) are probably mutually exclusive.

 

Same size body AND R-mount AND full frame sensor?

 

Plus of course, Leica aren't in the business of selling cameras to cover the lenses on eBay. They are in the business of selling new lenses.

 

Nice idea though - what you have described is an R10 (apart from the Made in Japan bit)

[elgenper]

Honestly, I would be very happy if they took the Digilux 2 as is (same exterior, same sensor, same pixel count, of course same lens), and just modified two things on it:

 

1) Add a decent raw buffer, so it could shoot 1 - 2 frames a second for at least 3 seconds.

 

2) Update the EVF with the technology used in the new Panasonic G1.

 

And, of course, somewhat closer focussing wouldn´t be unwelcome...

 

For such a camera, I´d be the first one in a long queue....

[John Thawley]

Honestly, I would be very happy if they took the Digilux 2 as is (same exterior, same sensor, same pixel count, of course same lens), and just modified two things on it:

 

1) Add a decent raw buffer, so it could shoot 1 - 2 frames a second for at least 3 seconds.

 

2) Update the EVF with the technology used in the new Panasonic G1.

 

And, of course, somewhat closer focussing wouldn´t be unwelcome...

 

For such a camera, I´d be the first one in a long queue....

 

What is your attraction to the EVF. For me, that was the reason I got rid of mine. The fact the Digilux 3 did NOT have an EVF was the reason I came back.

 

The lens on the 3 is nice. But, I'd prefer the lens that was on the 2. I just found the view finder miserable, though.

 

JT

[Ruhayat]

I don't need the buffer, but that new EVF and capability to read SDHC cards would be nice. Other than that, perhaps given current technology the body can be made slightly smaller?

 

There's not much one can do to improve on the Digilux 2, honestly.

[andybarton]

Any R replacement CANNOT have an EVF. Full stop. IMHO.

[jrethorst]

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what you have described is an R10 (apart from the Made in Japan bit)

 

Any R replacement CANNOT have an EVF. Full stop. IMHO.

 

The R is an SLR. I'm not discussing replacing it; rather, upgrading the Digilux concept. A good new EVF would be just fine, and much cheaper and quieter.

[farnz]

... And, of course, somewhat closer focussing wouldn´t be unwelcome...

Per,

 

You've confused me: the D2 already has macro AF and with an Elpro-D you get down to about 2 cm I think. You want closer focussing than this?

 

Pete.

[krabat]

Yes, IMHO, the design of the Digilux 2 needs no changes. Only an improved sensor (larger size - µ4/3? - and higher ISO speed with less noise), an improved EVF, and a RAW buffer, and that's it.The parameters of the lens could remain, because it is almost perfect.

 

Regards, Peter.

[elgenper]

What is your attraction to the EVF. For me, that was the reason I got rid of mine. The fact the Digilux 3 did NOT have an EVF was the reason I came back.

 

The lens on the 3 is nice. But, I'd prefer the lens that was on the 2. I just found the view finder miserable, though.

 

JT

 

Well, the EVF on the present D2 is no attraction. But I want TTL viewing, not an optical finder with parallax, and the D3 is far too bulky. I do think the future lies not in moving mirrors and prisms, but in far better EVF´s, and I feel the G1 gives us a glimpse of that future....

 

Per,

 

You've confused me: the D2 already has macro AF and with an Elpro-D you get down to about 2 cm I think. You want closer focussing than this?

 

Pete.

 

No; I do have a macro lens (the Canon one). What I want is to be able to shoot down to, say, 15 cm WITHOUT having to fiddle with extras. During my Hasselblad days, I had a full set of extension tubes; my Rollei SL66 had continous focussing. I know the difference between fiddling and shooting.....

[J Mitchum]

The Digilux 2 was nearly perfect.

 

A Digilux 2 mkII (or Digilux 4) using the same body but with an improved sensor, higher resolution EVF and LCD and a bigger buffer for decent write times would be perfect. The sensor is a problem as I don't think anyone makes a 2/3" sensor anymore but a custom sensor could be used. I don't think a 4/3" sensor is an option for cameras with integrated lenses. As long as they don't go overboard with megapixels or use a tiny sensor like most of the other integrated cameras out there they should be fine though. I would definitely like to see Image Stabilization included. There is really not much else to improve upon. Maybe add a dial for ISO speed.

 

Some people want one with interchangeable lenses but I think that should be another beast entirely. Many of us lamented the move from the Digilux 2 to the Digilux 3. They looked similar but were totally different cameras. Maybe microFourThirds is the answer to the Digital CL. There is not much you can do to the M8 to make it cheaper other than build it in Japan. Well, you could build it in China but I don't think that would go over well with Leica users.

[John Thawley]

The Digilux 2 was nearly perfect.

 

A Digilux 2 mkII (or Digilux 4) using the same body but with an improved sensor, higher resolution EVF and LCD and a bigger buffer for decent write times would be perfect. The sensor is a problem as I don't think anyone makes a 2/3" sensor anymore but a custom sensor could be used. I don't think a 4/3" sensor is an option for cameras with integrated lenses. As long as they don't go overboard with megapixels or use a tiny sensor like most of the other integrated cameras out there they should be fine though. I would definitely like to see Image Stabilization included. There is really not much else to improve upon. Maybe add a dial for ISO speed.

 

Some people want one with interchangeable lenses but I think that should be another beast entirely. Many of us lamented the move from the Digilux 2 to the Digilux 3. They looked similar but were totally different cameras. Maybe microFourThirds is the answer to the Digital CL. There is not much you can do to the M8 to make it cheaper other than build it in Japan. Well, you could build it in China but I don't think that would go over well with Leica users.

 

 

Well, let me throw this out there.... does anyone else see the strange (marketing) hole between the D-Lux 3 or 4 and the M8? To me, that's where Leica could bolster revenues by putting cameras in hands of buyers. I just don't think I'm the only guy that shoots Canon by day but wants a personal camera that is elegant, simple and produces quality images... without spending $8000. $3000 -$3500 is a nice niche... it's not cheap and by no means would sully Leica's reputation.

 

Bigger than the D-Lux 4 so it can have real user functionality and quality electronics and glass. Smaller than the Digilux so it is comfortable and discreet. Less money than the M8 so a working guy can have a little luxury in his life.

 

JT

[rsolomon]

if i could make my list....

 

1. if possible slim the Digilux 3 down a bit -o therwise leave the body and styling alone

2. maintain the current digilix 3 viewfinder - maybe brighten it up a bit - or offer different screens for different types of shooting.

3. a little faster on continous shooting - 5 fps

4. less noise at higher iso

5. allow iso range from 50 to 6400

6. take advantage of ROM contacts on the adapter so at least EXIF data is passed

7. move anit-shake to the camera body

8. allow an upgrade to R lenses to work in Apeture priority (probably not possible)

9. prodice a 50-100 2.8-3.5 zoom to compliment to the 14-50 2.8/3.5 kit lens

10. produce a handgrip accessory

11. make it quieter

[Bob Ross]

The Digilux 2 was nearly perfect.

 

A Digilux 2 mkII (or Digilux 4) using the same body but with an improved sensor, higher resolution EVF and LCD and a bigger buffer for decent write times would be perfect. The sensor is a problem as I don't think anyone makes a 2/3" sensor anymore but a custom sensor could be used. I don't think a 4/3" sensor is an option for cameras with integrated lenses. As long as they don't go overboard with megapixels or use a tiny sensor like most of the other integrated cameras out there they should be fine though. I would definitely like to see Image Stabilization included. There is really not much else to improve upon. Maybe add a dial for ISO speed.

 

Fuji has ressurected the 2/3" sensor, as used in their newest mega-zoom thing. While 4/3rds sensors can be used in a fixed lens model, the lens would have to cover the 22.5mm diagonal of the sensor, to work. The 2/3" sensor has an 11mm diagonal and ¼ the sensor area. The old Digilux 2 lens would have to change for a bigger sensor.

Bob

[J Mitchum]

Sorry. What I meant was I don't think the Four Thirds consortium (or whatever they call themselves) allows their sensors to be used in anything without interchangeable lenses. Or do they?. So we need a Digital CM, a Digilux 2 mk II and a Digital CL to fill in the product line.

[Guest makron]

Leica should take the Digilux 3 case, no changes on the outside and, on the inside:

 

1. substitute an EVF for the SLR/Porro prism. In 2008, it would probably be finer resolution and faster than the 2004 Digilux 2 EVF.

 

2. Drop 4/3, and have the Digilux 4 accept Leica R lenses, with as much functionality as possible. I think that would be manual focus but program auto (as well as aperture and shutter priority) exposure. And there are a lot of R lenses on eBay.

 

3. Use a full-frame sensor. That's where the market is headed, and the R lenses, which will produce a full-frame image on film in a box about the size of the Digilux 3, would support it.

 

4. Make it in Japan for a reasonable amount of money.

 

What a camera that would be.

 

 

Maybe it's cheaper and less hassle to buy digital bodies (D300 and above) from Nikon, change the mount, modify the auto-aperture lever and rebadge it. That is, if only Nikon agrees.

[rsolomon]

For goodness sake the Digilux 2 is over - I have one and its a great P&S, but the Digilux 2 has been replaced with the Digilux 3 - an SLR - which is also a great camera.... but for the discussion to have ANY meaning it needs to move beyond upgrading the Digilux 2, which was done already - years ago

 

Honestly, I would be very happy if they took the Digilux 2 as is (same exterior, same sensor, same pixel count, of course same lens), and just modified two things on it:

 

Yes, IMHO, the design of the Digilux 2 needs no changes. Only an improved sensor (larger size - µ4/3? - and higher ISO speed with less noise), an improved EVF, and a RAW buffer, and that's it.The parameters of the lens could remain, because it is almost perfect.

 

The Digilux 2 was nearly perfect.

 

A Digilux 2 mkII (or Digilux 4) using the same body but with an improved sensor, higher resolution EVF and LCD and a bigger buffer for decent write times would be perfect. The sensor is a problem as I don't think anyone makes a 2/3" sensor anymore but a custom sensor could be used. I don't think a 4/3" sensor is an option for cameras with integrated lenses. As long as they don't go overboard with megapixels or use a tiny sensor like most of the other integrated cameras out there they should be fine though. I would definitely like to see Image Stabilization included. There is really not much else to improve upon. Maybe add a dial for ISO speed.

 

Some people want one with interchangeable lenses but I think that should be another beast entirely. Many of us lamented the move from the Digilux 2 to the Digilux 3. They looked similar but were totally different cameras. Maybe microFourThirds is the answer to the Digital CL. There is not much you can do to the M8 to make it cheaper other than build it in Japan. Well, you could build it in China but I don't think that would go over well with Leica users.

 

Sorry. What I meant was I don't think the Four Thirds consortium (or whatever they call themselves) allows their sensors to be used in anything without interchangeable lenses. Or do they?. So we need a Digital CM, a Digilux 2 mk II and a Digital CL to fill in the product line.

[elgenper]

For goodness sake the Digilux 2 is over - I have one and its a great P&S, but the Digilux 2 has been replaced with the Digilux 3 - an SLR - which is also a great camera.... but for the discussion to have ANY meaning it needs to move beyond upgrading the Digilux 2, which was done already - years ago

 

Well, the Digilux 3 wasn´t an upgrade, it was a sidetrack. I have no reason to doubt its competence as an imaging machine, but just comparing the bulk, weight, and sound with the Digilux 2 proves that one is dealing with another type of camera, just as a Hasselblad is something else than a M Leica.

 

Besides, the obvious interest in this discussion, plus the near unanimous praise of the Digilux 2 shows that it is indeed meaningful to keep it going. Possibly, the sad realities of marketing and economy will prevent us to see a real uprade to the Digilux 2, but that´s not reason enough to put the lid on the demand for it.

[wstotler]

Well, the Digilux 3 wasn´t an upgrade, it was a sidetrack. I have no reason to doubt its competence as an imaging machine, but just comparing the bulk, weight, and sound with the Digilux 2 proves that one is dealing with another type of camera, just as a Hasselblad is something else than a M Leica.

 

Ditto. It felt like Leica split the Digilux 2's concept in half instead of directly moving forward with it--and we got the V-Lux 1 and the Digilux 3. (Digilux 3 got styling and name, V-Lux 1 got many enhanced digital features.)

 

I *liked* the Digilux 2 through and through. From the lens to the body style, to its capabilities (video, silent, etc., etc., etc.) and so on.

 

Four nits (and why I traded up to an M8): (1) The EVF was good in concept--but in practice it wasn't "ideal" (lag/resolution) for "proof positive" manual focus. It was like a "I'm 80% sure I got it" kind of thing. (Having auto was really nice, though.) They'd be able to "nail" an EVF today without issue, I think. (2) The aperture ring would accidentally slide to Auto-Macro sometimes from Auto. Annoying. Design flaw. (3) I couldn't get a shallow enough DOF to really throw OOF objects into blur the way I wanted. (Top reason for upgrading to an M and M glass.) (4) Slightly bulkier than I'd want.

 

But these are NITS. The Digilux 2 was awesome and I very much wish they'd have done an improved successor and not a total shift to something else.

 

And I *hope* that the V-Lux 1 evolves into a V-Lux 2, closer in body style and concept to the Digilux 2/3--with great glass and a good pricepoint.

 

Thanks,

Will

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[Ruhayat]

And I *hope* that the V-Lux 1 evolves into a V-Lux 2, closer in body style and concept to the Digilux 2/3--with great glass and a good pricepoint.

 

How about a V-Lux 2 with:

- manual ISO and shutter speed dials on the body;

- Vario-Summicron 28-90mm with manual focusing AND aperture rings;

- bigger sensor (micro-4/3 would be enough);

- 10MP would be enough;

- RAW buffer for 3fps (at least);

- boxy rangefinder-like body about the size of Epson RD-1 (lose the DSLR wannabe look already!).

 

That would be right up my alley. I'd buy this AND the Minilux-Digital (the one with the fixed 40mm Summicron lens), no doubt about it.

 

Of course, a V-Lux with the above specs probably won't be a V-Lux anymore, it would be a Digilux!