stunsworth Posted October 2, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 2, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bizarre... "I'd expect" over here indicates an educated guess. We are definitely NOT speaking the same language Thanks Andy at least I'm not now alone in speaking a different language than William :-). I still have the edge I believe, as I've also been labled an anarchist ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here Steven Lee joins Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lambroving Posted October 2, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 2, 2006 Thanks Andy at least I'm not now alone in speaking a different language than William :-). I still have the edge I believe, as I've also been labled an anarchist ;-) Nothing new in your first remark..., and as for the second, I thought that was Brent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 2, 2006 Bizarre... "I'd expect" over here indicates an educated guess. We are definitely NOT speaking the same language... What's bizarre about it? At the risk of flogging this horse to death, your "guess", being educated, must therefore be based on some prior knowledge and is therefore being given with that in mind. As they say on "Dragons' Den" - "I'm out" of this discussion. As to a newbie or amateur picking a retro-looking Leica over a functional, electronic one, I'd GUESS "reason" has little to do with it. Ask Wilfredo whom, I seem to remember, took this journey. To be frank, most people looking at an M7 or MP would not be able to tell the difference. They both look like Ms. Even to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 2, 2006 Share #44 Posted October 2, 2006 Nothing new in your first remark..., and as for the second, I thought that was Brent! Oh the joys or a search function... http://www.leica-camera-user.com/sports-leisure-time/3194-active-veteran-2.html?highlight=anarchist Message number 32. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 2, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 2, 2006 Easy......M7 is a spy organisation and the MP are the Military Police Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted October 2, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 2, 2006 To be frank, most people looking at an M7 or MP would not be able to tell the difference. They both look like Ms. Even to me. "Most people" don't BUY M's. Spoken like a true R-user... As for your first remark, the horse died yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 2, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Promoting a high-end brand in the US is difficult just because of the geography and if you look at high-end car brands, they concentrate on the North-East, Florida and California with a few hot spots like Chicago and Phoenix. Live in Nebraska and set your heart on an Aston Martin? Forget it. The same applies to Leica and the $40k stock-holding requirement is unrealistic especially in an age where next-day shipping is routinely available from the likes of DHL, UPS and Fedex. Few serious buyers who come to try an M8 and decide to buy are going to mind waiting for 1, at most 2, days. Better to maintain a first class replenishment service from central stocks instead of second-guessing where to stock slow-moving lines. Keep the P&S's in stock but only a demo M and R, safe in the knowledge that "if you want it, I can get it for you tomorrow". Leica are going for this corporate look for their premier dealerships with the two new stores in Tokyo and Berlin, modelled on the same colour scheme as the Photokina stand. It's the same deal with other companies like Porsche and Mercedes-Benz. Me, I'd much rather buy my items mail order and not have to schlep through the London traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 2, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 2, 2006 "Most people" don't BUY M's. Spoken like a true R-user... Andy's a big boy and can stand up for himself, but I'd just like to point out that he uses an M2 as well as the R system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 2, 2006 "Most people" don't BUY M's. Spoken like a true R-user... And a digital R-user at that. Must make me a third class citizen... FWIW, I may well use my M2 at the Challenge next weekend. We'll see. I used it this weekend, and the weekend before that. Oh, what's the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 2, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 2, 2006 Oh, what's the point. Steady on Andy, that's almost an exact quote of Kenneth Williams' last words ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 2, 2006 The same applies to Leica and the $40k stock-holding requirement is unrealistic especially in an age where next-day shipping is routinely available from the likes of DHL, UPS and Fedex. Few serious buyers who come to try an M8 and decide to buy are going to mind waiting for 1, at most 2, days. Better to maintain a first class replenishment service from central stocks instead of second-guessing where to stock slow-moving lines. Keep the P&S's in stock but only a demo M and R, safe in the knowledge that "if you want it, I can get it for you tomorrow". Leica are going for this corporate look for their premier dealerships with the two new stores in Tokyo and Berlin, modelled on the same colour scheme as the Photokina stand. It's the same deal with other companies like Porsche and Mercedes-Benz. Me, I'd much rather buy my items mail order and not have to schlep through the London traffic. The problem with mail order purchases is the inability to try before you buy. Most people wouldn't pony-up three grand for a camera without trying one out first. It would be like buying a car without a test drive. I agree with you about making sure that dealers have the correct level of correct stock, although we all know what it's like to have to travel a long distance to buy something, only to be told to come back tomorrow when the stock is in. It's bad enough when you can drive from one side of the country in 3 hours, let alone a place where it takes 6 days... The suggestion of an Apple-type store is, IMHO, a good one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted October 2, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 2, 2006 And a digital R-user at that. Must make me a third class citizen... 4th or 5th Class at least! FWIW, I may well use my M2 at the Challenge next weekend. We'll see. I used it this weekend, and the weekend before that. Oh, what's the point. Glad to hear you got some new contacts!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 2, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 2, 2006 All they have to do is provide two pair of binoculars, one Nikon one Leica. Let the customer get instant feedback and then explain how the cameras are the same. The down side is processing. Minilabs bring everything down to the same level of garbage. At least that is true in the USA. I have commercial prints sent from relatives in Sweeden and they are consistently first class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted October 2, 2006 Share #54 Posted October 2, 2006 I don't know if Sports Photo-Journalists fall within the particular definition of "pro" hereabouts but I do know rather a lot of them and I can't think of a single one who is using film, let alone a Leica, for their day to day work. I'm by no means an expert here but, as a design engineer, the only reason that I can think of why Leica would produce the M8 is to enable folks who have sunk a fair amount of capital into their excellent lenses to move some way towards the modern world without them having to abandon those lenses. The same goes for the DMR; both of these devices, are compromises. If economics were not an issue and they were to design the best state of the art camera on a blank sheet of paper, then I'm sure that it would not be a rangefinder and that it would neither use the R or M pattern lenses. Cheers, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 2, 2006 Share #55 Posted October 2, 2006 It's good to hear that you bought the gasoline for the fire ..... alas the lens fondlers got their way but it would have been an interesting camera. Given the circumstances Leica did ok..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted October 2, 2006 Share #56 Posted October 2, 2006 "Given the circumstances Leica did ok....." Indeed; it will be interesting to see what comes of the Sinar aquisition, I suspect that the result will be a Leica "digital for professionals", which neither the M8 or the DMR (excellent though they may be in their own way) are. No doubt we'll then get the line that "it's not a real Leica" just as we did for the Panaleicas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 2, 2006 Share #57 Posted October 2, 2006 No doubt we'll then get the line that "it's not a real Leica" just as we did for the Panaleicas. Maybe not as Panasonic is main stream and makes everything that is part of the Kitchen sink .. Sinar will be accepted as a company about cameras for photographers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 2, 2006 Share #58 Posted October 2, 2006 My word, what a lot of controversy this thread has caused! The M range was widely used by pro photographers, of course most now use digital Nikons/Canons etc., but there are still a significant number who appear to use M's - photojourno's, pap, social & wedding photographers. The M8 will no doubt appeal to all of them as well as perhaps some others who have to use digital and therefore couldn't (til now) use an M. The typical Press, Sports or Fashion photographer will carry on with their DSLR's and MF no doubt. As long as Leica sell enough to be successful, and we can look forward to more products in the future as well as continue to enjoy what we have, does it really matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted October 2, 2006 Share #59 Posted October 2, 2006 Hey, face up to it: if Leica Camera can find a productive formula to stay alive just so we happy few can continue to buy the newest M or R release every couple of years, what do we care? I wish Mr. Lee the greatest possible success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicajh Posted October 3, 2006 Share #60 Posted October 3, 2006 When I was a crime scene photographer for a local police department, I only used Leica Rs. The rest of the photogs used issue Nikons. There maybe still a few pro's shooting Leicas! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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