jinkx proof Posted September 16, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, my name is Ange and I am in Serbia visiting my boyfriend. I have always been interested in going back to film photography so after finding a zorki 4 at a market, I looked into finding more old classic cameras. I found an old gentleman who has been a photographer for over 40 years but is now in pension and no one it seems wants portraits done the old way any more... He has so many old beautiful cameras, several leicas and one he will sell me for 300 euros.(good price) Its working perfectly.... His english is not so good but here is the information I have taken from the camera itself.. it is black and chrome. Opens from the bottom, the lense says f=5cm Leica DRP I took TWO numbers from the camera and I so stupid i cannot distinguish which was from the lense and which was the seriel. He claims the camera is from about 1938 or 1939 the two numbers I have are 627277 (I have a FEELING this was on the lense) and the other which I cant say for certain was the seriel, because i may have them mixed up but the number was: 577313 He also mentioned something about the camera not having a mount for a "blitz" but I am not sure if this was a communication break down. I will see him again on friday but any help would be so appreciated. I imagine if I do end up buying this camera, I will become quite familiar with a lot of you! No doubt I will need help.. He has also mentioned the model F.... I will try to take a pic of this lovely camera which also comes in its original leather case, so as to help you with helping me! Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!! Ange:o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Hi jinkx proof, Take a look here Hoping for Advice. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted September 16, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 16, 2008 Ange, there's something fishy about the numbers. 627277 on a lens would mean manufacture in 1946-47. 577313 would be a Leica If ('one-f') from 1952-53. And that camera would lack a rangefinder (did it have three little windows or just one in front? Two little round windows flanking the rectangular finder window) but–it would have a flash sync connection, which the old man said it didn't have. That is, unless you have completely misunderstood him. 'Blitz' means 'flash'. A If would have no finder at all, just two accessory shoes on top. In any case, a pre-World War II manufacture is NOT indicated. A camera number of 627277 on the other hand would indicate a Leica IIIf 'red dial' of 1952-52 (this too with flash sync and a fairly desirable item), while 577313 should be a lens manufactured in 1942. What kind? No way to tell. You'll have to read what the text on the front ring says. The actual market value depends on the condition of the items, and the exact model. But at that price maybe you can afford to gamble. You may well come home with something interesting. Be advised however that a professional Cleaning-Lubricating-Adjustment job (a.k.a. as 'a CLA') may be necessary if you are in fact going to use equipment that is at least half a century old, and maybe more. The old man from the Age Before the War Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 16, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 16, 2008 By 'blitz' he probably mean a connection for flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 16, 2008 Share #4 Posted September 16, 2008 Lars' analisys is very good: the issue of numbers even could reveal, at worse, it is a "fake" Leica - made in Russia - they abound in Eastern Europe (and Western too, to be honest). The s/n of the lense, if it is a standard Elmar 5 cm, ought to be rather difficult to read... engraved on a front black metal ring. 300 Euros could be a good price for an original, operative Leica with lens... but for a fake isn't honest : Ange, if you can take a pair of pictures of the camera and send them to the forum (attaching pics isn't difficult if you are a good PC user...) we can surely help you better: a pair of pictures are sufficient : one of the TOP of the camera with all the knobs and the engravings (with s/n) well visible, the other of the FRONT, with lenses and VF windows well in focus; a third of the back/bottom can also be useful, but less fundamental than the 2 above. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinkx proof Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted September 17, 2008 Ange, there's something fishy about the numbers. 627277 on a lens would mean manufacture in 1946-47. 577313 would be a Leica If ('one-f') from 1952-53. And that camera would lack a rangefinder (did it have three little windows or just one in front? Two little round windows flanking the rectangular finder window) but–it would have a flash sync connection, which the old man said it didn't have. That is, unless you have completely misunderstood him. 'Blitz' means 'flash'. A If would have no finder at all, just two accessory shoes on top. In any case, a pre-World War II manufacture is NOT indicated. A camera number of 627277 on the other hand would indicate a Leica IIIf 'red dial' of 1952-52 (this too with flash sync and a fairly desirable item), while 577313 should be a lens manufactured in 1942. What kind? No way to tell. You'll have to read what the text on the front ring says. The actual market value depends on the condition of the items, and the exact model. But at that price maybe you can afford to gamble. You may well come home with something interesting. Be advised however that a professional Cleaning-Lubricating-Adjustment job (a.k.a. as 'a CLA') may be necessary if you are in fact going to use equipment that is at least half a century old, and maybe more. The old man from the Age Before the War Thankyou so much to those of you to those of you who have replied to me so quickly and with such knowlege! I went back to the old man today and unortunatly I only had my camera phone and I could not get clear images. I will post what I have and can say now with cetainty that the Seriel on top of the camera was 627277. I asked him about the lense and he then took out a box of maybe 5 or 6 leica lenses and told me he could not be sure that the lense on the camera pictured was the one it came with originally because he changed his lenses often back in the day. I could see he had a zoom lense and one he said MAY have been the original with that particular camera had a different seriel (933088 I think) The lense has white writing engraved into the black outer rim and says SUMMITAR f=5cm 1:2 577313 Ernst Leitz. As you can see from the pictures there appears to be a connection for a "blitz" and I believe we had a language barrier that he may have thought I was asking him if he had a Blitz to go with the camera. I hope that with this information, and the blury pics you can help me to make the decision about buying this camera. Also, there was no RED dial numbers around the lense. they were all black... I also should note that all enraings including the seriel are clean and very fine and neat. Here is hoping with fingers crossed.. what do you all think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 17, 2008 Share #6 Posted September 17, 2008 I think it's genuine. The plunger of the shutter release is the correct type. If it was a converted Russian camera it would have a threaded hole in the middle to take a standard cable release. The pictures show the correct Leica shutter release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinkx proof Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted September 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it's genuine. The plunger of the shutter release is the correct type. If it was a converted Russian camera it would have a threaded hole in the middle to take a standard cable release. The pictures show the correct Leica shutter release. oh thats a good start!!!! THANKYOU! I know that fakes must flood the market, but I want to add that this old mans father was a photographer, and so was HIS father. My gut feeling is that he is genuine but of course I want to check with those "in the know" first before I part with the money... Also, if it is indeed what you suspect to be original/genuine is 300 euros a good price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 17, 2008 Share #8 Posted September 17, 2008 Ange, I'm not an expert regarding prices, I haven't owned one of these cameras for years. but the price seems reasonable with a lens. I'm sure someone else will be in a better position than me to decide what it's worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_hutton Posted September 17, 2008 Share #9 Posted September 17, 2008 Ange - Heres a link to serial numbers for screw mount Leica's. Leica Screw Mount Serial #'s Sorted by Number A point of information - The lens is not a 'zoom' lens, it is a collapsible but fixed 50mm f2. I'd say the price is very fair but it would be worth having it serviced if not checked to make sure the shutter is firing correctly. Regards Graeme PS I have a 1C from 1931 which works perfectly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 17, 2008 Share #10 Posted September 17, 2008 Ange, me too think that this is a genuine Leica... even if there is something strange in the advance knob....I'd say a model IIIf BD, and the lens could be a Summitar 5cm f2 ; if functional and lens rather good, 300 Euros can be a very good price. Pity the number isn't clear... anyway is surely a postwar camera - around 1952. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 17, 2008 Share #11 Posted September 17, 2008 Hello, I never seen a rewind button like this one, with grooves in the kurneled surface and without film reminder on the top. And why there are 2 syncro flash plugs ? one in the regular place for a IIIf and one in the place usually used for a retaining screw. at 627277 normaly the top is not fixed by screws. Hard to say it is so or so whithout having the camera in hand and checking some particular points, specialy inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 17, 2008 Share #12 Posted September 17, 2008 Looks like a genuine lllf to me, but one that has maybe been modified/repaired (modified for flash connector at the front - the rear one looks like just a hole, no actual flash connector? and the film advance knob isn't the original Leica one, maybe it broke or something and was replaced with a knob from another camera which happened to fit?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinkx proof Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted September 19, 2008 Thankyou so much to all of you who have taken the time to respond. It had made my decision to buy the camera so much easier altho I am still taking a gamble because the shutter is not firing. I am hoping that when I return to Australia, a good CLA will solve this problem, as the camera has not been used in arpund 15 years. Thankyou again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 19, 2008 Share #14 Posted September 19, 2008 Compliments for your acquisition ! And, when you'll be at home, find the time to take some more pictures of it (a bit less "street shots"... )... we can have something more to say about: old Leicas are really a passion for lot of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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