jackart Posted September 30, 2006 Share #1  Posted September 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting move!  Leica acquires control of Sinar: Digital Photography Review http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/camera.php  Jaak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 30, 2006 Posted September 30, 2006 Hi jackart, Take a look here Leica is moving to medium format -- Sinar aquisition!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted September 30, 2006 Share #2  Posted September 30, 2006 This was actually announced and posted here Monday. I expect dpreview's people were in Koln all week and are just getting caught up on posting the news.  I just ran across the following, however, which may help explain (or at least raises interesting questions about) the Austrian/German/Swiss combine ACM is building around Leica:  Hasselblad H3D Concerns  Looks like the "new" Fujiblad is freezing out both Zeiss (lenses) and Phase One (backs). The new camera will only work with THEIR back and THEIR new chipped lenses.  So the planned Sinar (Rollei) SLR may be the only place these companies can turn to to sell products, and the only option (once it arrives) for photographers who want to mix-and-match backs or lenses.  Not even that is certain - since the Sinar might go the same route of only working with Jenoptik-engineered proprietary backs (although M. Reichmann does say the Hy6 will be "open architecture"). But it could explain why Phase One is "making nice" with Leica regarding Capture One for the M8 - they don't see any future for themselves with Hasselblad, and want access to the cartel ACM is putting together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted September 30, 2006 Share #3  Posted September 30, 2006 This step can only be of advantage for Leica to earn back their reputation of being a leading photographic company in the digital age.  I keep all possible fingers crossed for them, since I would really love them see succeed against the big gorillas with their dedication, background and knowledge  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted September 30, 2006 Share #4  Posted September 30, 2006 This was actually announced and posted here Monday. I expect dpreview's people were in Koln all week and are just getting caught up on posting the news. I just ran across the following, however, which may help explain (or at least raises interesting questions about) the Austrian/German/Swiss combine ACM is building around Leica:  Hasselblad H3D Concerns  Looks like the "new" Fujiblad is freezing out both Zeiss (lenses) and Phase One (backs). The new camera will only work with THEIR back and THEIR new chipped lenses.  So the planned Sinar (Rollei) SLR may be the only place these companies can turn to to sell products, and the only option (once it arrives) for photographers who want to mix-and-match backs or lenses.  Not even that is certain - since the Sinar might go the same route of only working with Jenoptik-engineered proprietary backs (although M. Reichmann does say the Hy6 will be "open architecture"). But it could explain why Phase One is "making nice" with Leica regarding Capture One for the M8 - they don't see any future for themselves with Hasselblad, and want access to the cartel ACM is putting together.  I was also confused by the "full frame 48 chip" they advertise. This is FAR AWAY from a FF 645 chip and I give a shit (sorry for the word, but I found no better) for their solution if it is as closed and just MARKITECTURE.  Finally they will loose, this started alread with using non Zeiss lenses for their H System, which is a great argument for me NOT to buy any of this lenses and consequntially not any of their H3 cameras.  I also am sure that 645 and 6x6 is somehow dead in the digital age, because one will be able to achive sufficient highesrt quality with existing solutions or soon to see future FF solutions.  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted September 30, 2006 Share #5 Â Posted September 30, 2006 Pre-Photokina I wouldn't have given this project much hope. However, the decision of Hasselblad to go to a closed proprietary system makes this a very viable venture. The Hy6 is an evolution of the excellent Rollei 6000 series, combine that with Zeiss, Schneider, Leica, Phase One, Leaf, Jenoptik and Sinar (all best of breed in their respective specialties) on an open modular platform -had to put a bit of a wet blanket on Hasselblad's plans to lock up the medium format market. I wonder if Leica might go with the Hy6 as the next generation R or consider making some medium format lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted September 30, 2006 Share #6 Â Posted September 30, 2006 How "open" is this new platform? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted September 30, 2006 Share #7 Â Posted September 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sinar, Phase One and Leaf will all be marketing Hy6 cameras under their brand names. The lens mount is the Rollei 6000 mount. I believe Rollei management bought out the camera and slide projector manufacturing operation of Rollei Fototechnic and are now operating as Franke & Heidecke seeking to provide design and maunfacturing services to the industry. Â Zeiss and Schneider make Rollei mount lenses and now that Hasselblad has shut out the medium format digital back manufacurers this platform has taken on new importance for their survival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted October 1, 2006 Share #8 Â Posted October 1, 2006 hi... Â i think hasslebad made a good move from their point of view... im not enthusiastic about the hassy h series, but it is aazing camera and it has great market for the way it is... but true - the rollei version will have big market and importance in my opinion. Â about not using hasselblad becuase of its lenses ... wait ...was it joke, or u say it seriously???... what is wrong with hassy lenses - why do u think fuji doesnt know to make good lenses???? fuji serves proffesional medium for so many years and with great success. the fact that the lenses are not schneiders and zeiss DOES NOT means that it is junk. get this camera, photograph with it and u will see yourslef if it is a joke or serious :-)))))))) Â and if u talk so good about ziess lenses - than let me tell u one thing... the only ziess lens for medium that really comes to perfection is the biogon 38mm.. in all the rest - with wide angle at least - schneider beats them at least in flatness of field (which is less important for fashion or documentary but super important for architecture and alike). and hassy was not with schneider anyway... Â by the way - just a little remark about lenses - there is one lens made by zeiss for rollei cameras (6000) - it is 110/f2 plannar... ha ha - it is super fast, it goes almost to the marko level (50cm focusing)... it is great... and on the standard digi frame (48x36) it is like using 75summilux on leica :-)))))))))) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted October 1, 2006 Share #9 Â Posted October 1, 2006 I don't think Hasselblad's problem is the Fuji lens line. There are lots of H1 and H2 owners with Phase One or Leaf backs (probably more then use Hassy/Imacon). Hasselblad has just told them that they have to dump thier $30,000. digital back investment and buy a Hasselblad digital back and new H3 body if they want to maintain compatibility with future Hasselblad products. Ouch! Thats no way to treat your customers after you got them to buy into your platform by ensuring them that your camera was the best platform for Leaf, Phase One, etc., Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted October 1, 2006 Share #10 Â Posted October 1, 2006 hank - i agree with u that there is some problem with it - great problem actually... Â but then think about it from broder strategic point of view.... at least half of them will want to upgrade digi backs... only the very recent digi backs get the quality that at this moment doesnt seem to need upgrade. so here it is - then they can fully move into the platform... those who recently bought the hassy (say the h2) then they probably have digi back that is good enough - and camera that is good enough at the moment... so they can wait for next generation upgrades :-))))) so ya... not perfect what i say here not totally flexible for those who use hasselblads already... but it makes it a bit more realistic with the step of hasselblad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 1, 2006 Share #11 Â Posted October 1, 2006 There are lots of H1 and H2 owners with Phase One or Leaf backs (probably more then use Hassy/Imacon). Hasselblad has just told them that they have to dump thier $30,000. digital back investment and buy a Hasselblad digital back and new H3 body if they want to maintain compatibility with future Hasselblad products. Ouch! Thats no way to treat your customers after you got them to buy into your platform by ensuring them that your camera was the best platform for Leaf, Phase One, etc., Â Michael Reichmann is not very happy... Â http://www.luminous-landscape.com/photokina/H3-concerns.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_rob Posted October 3, 2006 Share #12 Â Posted October 3, 2006 I just picked up my jaw from the floor when I read about those new collaborations... Â IMHO, the Hasselblad's action toward making their backs proprietary, will turn out in a near future to be their death certificate (what the hell were they thinking?!). Â On the other hand, the new alliance between Leica, Rollei, Sinar, Zeiss, Schneider, Jenoptik and PhaseOne will be a great success (I sure hope so). Â I had a premonition that this Photokina will be a revolutionary one. We live in exciting times, that's for sure... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted October 3, 2006 Share #13 Â Posted October 3, 2006 I think Hasselblad shot themselves in the foot and overestimated thier "monopoly" position. If I had sunk a lot of money in their system only to have them pull this bait and switch -I'd be steamed. I suspect that many will put off upgrading to see if a jump to Canon/Nikon or the new Hy6/Pgase/Leaf system will be practical. I am sure Leaf and Phase One could find ways to make it very attractive for customers to stay with them. After all these are more computer systems then camera systems now and Hassy is forcing you to either dump the maker of the camera or the back. As for Hasselblad, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham_mitchell Posted October 3, 2006 Share #14 Â Posted October 3, 2006 The competition between Hasselblad's monopoly and the Hy6 collaboration will be very interesting indeed. Personally speaking I don't think I have ever been as excited about a camera announcement as I have been about the Hy6 Sounds like the perfect MF body to me, with a terrific set of already proven lenses, and I'm awaiting more concrete information eagerly. Â I don't expect Leica will be involved in medium format, but they can certainly benefit from the pooling of resources such as sensor auxiliaries and RAW processing. Â A Hy6 and a Leica M8 would make an ideal combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted October 3, 2006 Share #15 Â Posted October 3, 2006 ha ha grehamm ... ive been very exited too about the hy6... u know, ive been told by some guys to wait with my move to digi.... asked them what exactly... well - i see it now :-)))))))))) Â leaf is based here in israel as u may know.. so i hope very soon i will have a real insight into it... very exiting indeed - i have some good feeling about this camera... Â about haselbald... well - people talk and talk about it - but dont forget - hasselbald is the natural modernized replacement for the great contax camera 645... and ya.... many will get into it - i have no doubt about it... both systems are fantastic... i think i too, will love the hy6 much more though... with the film too - i prefered the rollei over the contax (although no doubt that contax was just as good as rollei). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khun_k Posted October 3, 2006 Share #16 Â Posted October 3, 2006 Somehow may be those maker can also reconsider to pick up the as-competitive platform of Contax 645. It is as finished as a Hasselblad H, may be just needing some electronic upgrade but even without, it is still a near perfect camera. I can't be more happier than the one I am using with P45 back. I think the Leica buying Sinar is strategic collaboration and to share the digital development resources. I do not think Leica is considering medium format, a full-frame 135 M digital in the next 2-3 years will keep them busy enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted October 3, 2006 Share #17 Â Posted October 3, 2006 Would the Leica medium format lens designs be based off the 35mm lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted October 3, 2006 Share #18 Â Posted October 3, 2006 Many, many years ago, when film was slow and grainy, I used to bug the Leica guys about making medium format lenses. They were adamantly negative about such an idea. It would be great if they made lenses for that format now, although I am not sure what the demand really is for medium format digital - it is very expensive, and the truth is 10MP is fine for most things (I just made some 17 x 22 prints from an 8 MP Canon 1D2, and while I would rather have used the much larger 1Ds2 files, they looked fine - far better than they would if this had been a 35mm film scan). Â I could never get used to the slow Hasselblad, so I bought a Rollei 6008, which I still have - it will be interesting to see if it sees some action in the future! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 3, 2006 Share #19 Â Posted October 3, 2006 "Many, many years ago, when film was slow and grainy..." Â That must have been long, long before my time. I don't ever remember film being slow and grainy. ;-}} Â "...they looked fine - far better than they would if this had been a 35mm film scan)." Â Interesting. I have 20x24 prints all over my house from 35mm transparencies and whenever I look closely at them I wonder if I'll ever make a digital print I like as much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_rob Posted October 3, 2006 Share #20 Â Posted October 3, 2006 I have 20x24 prints all over my house from 35mm transparencies and whenever I look closely at them I wonder if I'll ever make a digital print I like as much. I find this whole comparison thing (between digital and film) as rather silly. Reminds me of pitching a vinyl against CDs or PCs against Macs. Each one of those formats had its time of glory and each one of them will eventually give way to something newer and better. And yet, again and again, I hear discussions about how film is superior to digital technology. In what way, I ask? Â Many people are just too traditional or conservative to admit that a newer format is usually better than the old one. Otherwise, we would stick to this day to such technologies as a daguerrotype and other primitive ones. Who, in their right mind, really prefers grainy film images over smooth-toned and grainless digital images, and for what reason? Certainly not for any ill-conceived aesthetic notion? It's a real puzzle to me... Â But, I digressed from the original theme of the thread. My apology for this deviation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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