M8.2

[sean_reid]

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I think we have strayed off topic here, but so what!

 

Recently, at a dinner party the hostess complimented me on my photography (specifically, pics of her son) and then remarked, "you must have a really good camera!" I bit my tongue (must have had an intuition of what was coming;) )

 

Later the same evening when she served dessert, I remarked "what a wonderful dessert, you must have a very good oven."

She did have the good grace to acknowledge the import of the comparison and remains a good friend.

 

Well done Earl. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[terrycioni]

I rest my case. M'Lud.

 

Have either of you used the ZM body from Zeiss? Perhaps you could comment on what leads to these cute short responses....

 

 

Terry

[andybarton]

I haven't (I haven never even seen one, and would have to travel a very long way to buy one), but I trust the judgement of Robert. He's had a few cameras through his hands in his time

 

Only shooting the breeze, as you say.

[andybarton]

ere taken with the M8, the rest with Canon DSLRs and other gear (notably Ricoh GX100)

- as of today, according to Flickr's (obscure) "interestingness" algorithm, all of my 6 most "interesting" photos were taken with the M8...

 

How do you access Flickr's "Interestingness" rating system?

[sean_reid]

Have either of you used the ZM body from Zeiss? Perhaps you could comment on what leads to these cute short responses....

 

 

Terry

 

I tested the Ikon and the M7. Build quality is certainly higher on the Leica but the Zeiss finder is slightly better.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[geoffreyg]

In thinking about exactly what a Leica is -- and this may sound moronic -- I've concluded that it's simply a Leica camera. If you like Leica cameras, then, get an M8. But it is not nearly the best reportage camera -- .....

As for fine art, fine art is what it is, and the specs for a fine art camera, for some people, may make a Leica a top choice. .....

 

So, Leicas are basically like classic old Ferraris. If you like old Ferraris, God bless you; but you could get a new modern Porsche for a fraction of the price, and run the legs off the Ferrari. But if you like Ferraris, you put up with the problems.

 

Looking for one word to express it, I'd say that for most people, the Leica is a high-functioning, elegant...toy.

 

JC

 

Gee, such good thoughts, and such a modest (!) summation.

 

Let's try this another way: if you like the tools you use, and you make good art with those tools, then they are successful tools for you. Perhaps there are technically better tools out there, but does that matter?

 

Maybe you are interested in the art, maybe you are a craftsman, but not a tool salesman. What is the matter if the tools you have just work better for you?

 

Isn't that what's important? -The quality of the art made at the end of the day is the goal, not the tool.

[Ecar]

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How do you access Flickr's "Interestingness" rating system?

Actually, it seems that many people have tried to "deconstruct" Flickr's interestingness formula in order to fool it, with limited success... This is also because the algorithm changes from time to time.

Very broadly, the key metrics have to do with other Flickr users' appreciation of any given image. More on the basics here:

Flickr: Explore interesting content around Flickr

 

It seems that Yahoo!, who own Flickr, have patented the concept. If you are prepared to get yourself a headache, here's the link:

United States Patent Application: 0060242139

 

We're seriously OT here...

[artur5]

Nikon used to say the same about FF, "we'll do it when we'll be ready" and then came the D3 - now, if Zeiss is following the same path and their RF will be as good in the M-mount camp as the D3 is in the DSRL camp, I will be a very happy camper

 

 

Yes, but the D3 came almost SIX YEARS after the Canon 1Ds. If Zeiss keeps the same path, you'll get your DRF in 2012 or so..

[terrycioni]

I tested the Ikon and the M7. Build quality is certainly higher on the Leica but the Zeiss finder is slightly better.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

"slightly better" faint praise all things considered.

[Guest DuquesneG]

I think we have strayed off topic here, but so what!

 

Recently, at a dinner party the hostess complimented me on my photography (specifically, pics of her son) and then remarked, "you must have a really good camera!" I bit my tongue (must have had an intuition of what was coming;) )

 

Later the same evening when she served dessert, I remarked "what a wonderful dessert, you must have a very good oven."

She did have the good grace to acknowledge the import of the comparison and remains a good friend.

 

You should really make that posting sticky...for quick quotation every time someone makes the assertion that him using a Leica makes him a better photographer than someone else using a Canon or Nikon

[SJP]

If you know how to cook then a better pan makes you a better cook. If you don't know how to cook then your cooking sucks independent of the quality of the pan.

 

So better tools make better pics/photographers if (and only if) you are a photographer. If not use your Nokia and be happy.

[Vieri]

Have Zeiss managed to make a film M-mount camera that's as good as a Leica one?

 

No.

 

I rest my case. M'Lud.

 

Following this principle, there wouldn't be any room for any surprise in any market for any kind of product - nor any room for "market position improvement" and for a manufacturer to surpass the quality of another ever in any field. Too drastic a view for me to accept it, but YMMV of course.

 

As well, if one asks oneself: has Zeiss ever built lenses that are better than Leica? Then the answer change slightly: yes, and cheaper too. So, there is hope IMHO

 

Last, while the Ikon might not be better built than the M7, though having a slightly better VF (quoting Sean), let's not forget that Ikon sells for something between 1/3 - 1/4 the price of a M7, meaning you could get at least 3 new Ikons for 1 new M7. I am pretty sure this would take care of all reliability issues the Ikon might (or might not) have.

 

Yes, but the D3 came almost SIX YEARS after the Canon 1Ds. If Zeiss keeps the same path, you'll get your DRF in 2012 or so..

 

Very true. However, Zeiss (seems to be) aiming to releasing a FF DRF, which no other manufacturer released yet; so if they come out with something like that in 2012 (or 2010, or whenever) it would always be better than Leica and its 1.33x - or do you guys think Leica will be releasing a FF Mx before 2012?

[Guest DuquesneG]

So better tools make better pics/photographers if (and only if) you are a photographer. If not use your Nokia and be happy.

 

When I was a kid my dad, who was anything but a photographer, used to take all the family pictures. He used a Kodak Instamatic with a built-in meter and "zone" focusing. The pictures were 99% fuzzy and poorly exposed. After our first child was born, I gave my dad one of my Canon EOS-1N bodies, which was the top pro model at that time. Dad's photographs of his grandchild suddenly became 99% in-focus and properly exposed. They're also a hell of a lot better, compositionally, than the ones he took of me as a kid, because once he saw he (or more properly, the camera) could actually take a sharp, well-exposed picture, he was inspired and freed to concentrate on the more artistic aspects of photography.

 

Now then, rewind to my college years, and Dad lent me that same Kodak Instamatic for a hitchhiking trip around Europe with my best friend. I came back with hundreds of shots, all properly focused, and for the most part well-exposed, and also good enough for some to get published in a travel brochure.

 

So there is a counterpoint, and maybe a contradiction, to your simple generalization...as there is to most simple generalizations.

 

What I have noticed repeatedly is that people who are truly excellent at what they do...cooking or photography or anything that involves tools or equipment...rarely if ever bring up brand names unless specifically asked (or paid). Sure, there are exceptions. I have seen a few excellent photographers who readily bloviate about the professed superiority of their equipment. I always wonder if they realize they are in effect discrediting their own natural talent and perhaps years of study and hard work.

[SJP]

@DuquesneG

 

Thanks for your story - it reminded me of my father. He never really got into using a OM2 and before had a 4.5x4.5 camera of which I do not even remember the make. Somehow he told me about aperture and shutter speed & stuff while I was not listening.

 

In retrospect I should of listened, but some of it has remained for which I am grateful.

[ho_co]

... I sure hope that wakeup (from sleep) time for this camera will shorten- it needs to be inexistant, like all pro cameras...

The M8 wakes from sleep immediately when you press the shutter release button to its first stop; takes it less time than it does you to get it to your eye.

 

It's ready to shoot as soon as you touch the release, like all the other cameras I know. It doesn't give you battery readout and remaining picture count till a few seconds later, but you could have made two exposures by then.

 

Only thing to remember is to press the button partway first, then press it home. If you press all the way through without pausing when waking from sleep, you'll get a wrong exposure.

 

Hope this relates to what you're mentioning.

[erl]

A vital point worth remembering. Thanks Howard.

[ho_co]

I rest my case. M'Lud.

 

Ohmigosh. I just realized what you were saying.

 

I thought you meant "M Luddite."

 

[ho_co]

A vital point worth remembering. Thanks Howard.

Erl, it's something I learned here on the forum. I think a lot of us have the same misconception.

[erl]

Howard, a further thought. I suspect the 'instant 1/2 release then full technique' would NOT work in 'A' mode, would it?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DerrickC]

I think we have strayed off topic here, but so what!

 

Recently, at a dinner party the hostess complimented me on my photography (specifically, pics of her son) and then remarked, "you must have a really good camera!" I bit my tongue (must have had an intuition of what was coming;) )

 

Later the same evening when she served dessert, I remarked "what a wonderful dessert, you must have a very good oven."

She did have the good grace to acknowledge the import of the comparison and remains a good friend.