rfleica Posted October 4, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 4, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is understandably a very important topic. The M8 costs a stash, and it's entirely comprehensible - indeed obvious - that the many early adopters (myself included) wish to avoid getting a "dud". However, I thought Wheatley's shots were great....but only saw images in a pdf file! Moreover, Sean - whose opinions and reviews demand utmost respect, IMHO - says we will not be disappointed. Sean has been using the M8, albeit with early firmware - surely this is key data. We also know what the DMR images are like; and they should be considered a minimum expectation for the M8. So, I am still positive. But waiting is not easy:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Hi rfleica, Take a look here Dear Leica: WHEN will we see M8 images?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rvaubel Posted October 4, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 4, 2006 Here we go again... I understand the frustration involved but in the days before computers we knew how to be patient and it's not a bad idea to re-learn that skill <G>. Hang in there. Legit picture examples from cameras with production firmware will be out there shortly after reviewers such as myself get the cameras. Sean Sean I can't help over analyzing everything. I have fun doing it. That being said, folks are reading waaay to much into these pictures. Although I'm pretty certain that the are M8 JPEGs, I wouldn't base my buying decisions on them. At best they are JPEGs for christ sake. I wish they were RAWs because then I could really have a field day with my RAW converter. But they're not What we are doing here is having fun speculating about a camera based on scant evidence. I can imagine that professional reviewers like Sean get frustrated by all the noise created by the release of pictures like this. I, frankly, think there is a lot of info to be gleaned from the pictures but not at the expense of having people cancel orders over them. As an intellectual exercise it's kind of challenging to put all the pieces of the few photos out there into the puzzle. But, when I see people become unglued because of pictures like this it makes my wonder if my entertainment value is worth the risk to the acceptance of a product by some. Remember folks. At best, they are JPEGs of which we have NO idea of what kind of in-camera, out of camera post processing went on. In a couple of weeks, Sean and others will have definative RAW files for us all to play with. Till then, HANG ON! Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted October 4, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 4, 2006 But Han ... check the noise pattern, as a Leica M, it has to be a decent high ISO performer and live upto the expectations from addicted available light shooters. My pre-order won't be cancelled in any case as I want to try this darned thing out myself and make my own judgement. It can't be easier to dump it on eBay just in case I really don't like it ... I'm sure some folks are ready to pay a premium to get it in a heart beat. Hello Simon ... good to see you;). Still a good eye for noise after the 1Ds classic i see Seriously: Leica are no complete fools ..... in all their folders/ brochures they are promoting the M8 as THE available light camera .... if they could not come up with descent high iso performance it would have been a lot wiser to choose a different positioning for the camera.Not shouting this specific claim from the roof ..... The guy who shot these pictures just wants shorter waiting lists:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 4, 2006 Share #44 Posted October 4, 2006 It's not really the noise that I find the most disturbing (although I can't say I'm over-enthused about that either), but the chromatic aberration and artifacting just looks horrible. I'm beginning to think that Leica enthusiasts (myself included) are actually willing ourselves blind to the glaring faults that are palpably obvious in images like this... [random details below] Let's face it, these images are horrible. If they did actually come from the camera, beta firmware or not, I'm seriously going to reconsider my buying decision... Plasticman The images are not horrible. I'm glad you posted the 100% file of the lateral color in the light. Talk about an extreme test,,,blown highlights against a black background. If these were only RAW files I could test the effectiveness of the color abberation algorithm of my RAW converter. Jeesh, the chromatic aberration is a finction of the lens not the sensor! I guess what your saying is the in-camera chromatic corrector isn't effective. How do you know its even ON? I have a sneaking suspicion that all the in camera processing is turned off. The files look this way as evidenced by the lack of obvious sharpening, chromatic aberration correction, unsurpressed noise, etc. If I were the picture taker, I'd turn all the in=camera processing stuff off. But we just don't know yet. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 4, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 4, 2006 Mani we all have 5k in the balance , and some like myself have 15 k in the balance and our careers based on decisions like these. I would just relax as much as we can and see what happens. Easy to say , hard to do and i am anxiuos too. Sounded like poem. From a guy that can't write to save his life. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted October 4, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 4, 2006 Leica is not Canon, Nikon... the Leica M8-image-quality meets Leica-standards, otherwise they wouldn't come up with this camera! The only existing RAW-files had at least DMR-quality, these horrible JPGs are no proof for bad quality - especially this kind of chromatic abberation would be very unlikely with any new M-lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 4, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mani we all have 5k in the balance , and some like myself have 15 k in the balance and our careers based on decisions like these. I would just relax as much as we can and see what happens. Easy to say , hard to do and i am anxiuos too. Sounded like poem. From a guy that can't write to save his life. LOL I'm gonna pour myself a nice large glass of something old, sit back, close my eyes... and hope for the best! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 4, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 4, 2006 Mani if your pouring than I'm drinking. Honestly my issue is how much better is it from the DMR. Not worried if it is worse but how much better and what do i do . I have a TON of R gear. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 4, 2006 .... if they could not come up with descent high iso performance it would have been a lot wiser to choose a different positioning for the camera. Perhaps they thought that we have been quite happy with pushed Tri-X for decades and now the bar has been raised. The guy who shot these pictures just wants shorter waiting lists:) I'm again high number 1 on my dealer freinds' list ... he is getting many pre-orders from folks who have never had rangefinder experiences, it is true that there're hobbiests trading in their 1D2, 1Ds2 for the M8 - thanks to the monster thread on FM, the pressure on Leica's back is enormous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 4, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 4, 2006 Is it possible to get images like this from an M8? Yes. Just crank the contrast, sharpening and saturation off the top of the scale, shoot jpeg at ISO 2500, and leave the lens detection turned off. Of course, settings like these will make ANY digital still camera look like bad video. I hate to remind people, but a professional photographer is not included in the price of the M8 - one IS going to have to learn to operate the camera competently oneself. I don't have much faith in the competence of whoever shot the Danish shots - whether they are with an M8 and 28 f/2.8 ASPH or not. Every version of the M8 "Photokina Lady" image that I've seen has been 'way overprocessed in RAW, with sharpening from another planet applied. Of COURSE they look like they came from a Coolpix jpeg! Let's wait until we see production software-based images shot and developed by somebody competent to stir pixels, like Sean or Guy (or me!). I've seen real M8 shots, and even with betaware they are a very nice starting point. With Leica's final color calibration (or 5 minutes on my own with a gretag card), I have no doubts at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 4, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 4, 2006 Perhaps they thought that we have been quite happy with pushed Tri-X for decades and now the bar has been raised sdai Is it just me that thinks that these JPEGs were taken at 1250 ISO and they are pretty good? Maybe its because I work in RAW and don't expect much from a JPEG, but I assume that however took the picture had all the processing variables turned off. But then I was thinking that for people that use JPEGS as they come from the camera, these images may look awful. I'm just trying to figure out why I see the glass mostly full and others see it nearly empty. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted October 4, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 4, 2006 Just received new LFI. With 5 colors pictures shot with M8 + 21mm Elmarit ASPH by Simon Wheatley. Pics of the "Grime Scene" in London. Small images but looks pretty good to me, especially tones and contrast. With a slight lack of "piqué", but it's difdicult to judge on such specimens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 4, 2006 I'm just trying to figure out why I see the glass mostly full and others see it nearly empty. ... wouldn't bother me ... YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markku Posted October 4, 2006 Share #54 Posted October 4, 2006 " ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION whatsoever that these were taken with the M8, as far as i can see. But then, like i said - i can't seem to get to the EXIF in these pictures. Anyone else?? Hi all and greetings from the north! This is my first writing in here and this is the day when I ordered my silver M8 I'm number 9 on that list... Anyhow, I have a comment regarding the Danish site and its pictures. I don't speak Danish but do speak Swedish and for me it is easy to understand what it says. That is the title on this URL: Photokina billeder med LEICA M8 + M 2,8/28 ASPH "Photokina billeder med LEICA M8 + M 2,8/28 ASPH" which says in English: "Photokina pictures with LEICA M8...." So, together with resolution and the above title it seems that they were taken with M8. I indeed was shocked after seeing cheap P&S camera quality but let's wait and see what it looks like shooting with ISO 1250+ settings. /markku Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&W Posted October 4, 2006 Share #55 Posted October 4, 2006 As i stated (pretty unequivocally) above - nowhere on the site does the Leica distributor claim that these images were indeed taken with the M8 (much to my relief). However, I was a bit shaken that someone seemed to have hard evidence that they indeed WERE taken with the camera. The "Photokina billeder med LEICA M8 + M 2,8/28 ASPH" heading means Photokina pictures with LEICA M8 + M2,8/28 ASPH in English I really don’t know……but again the site belongs to the Danish distributor….and I understood it as the pictures has been made with the M8….and thought it could be of some interest………….. Sorry about all this confusion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted October 4, 2006 Share #56 Posted October 4, 2006 Well, sooner or later we will see the images. A few more weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 4, 2006 Share #57 Posted October 4, 2006 These images do not compare with the 100+ frames I've viewed. Don't be concerned by the poor quality shown above, they are not a representative sample. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted October 4, 2006 Share #58 Posted October 4, 2006 I am just an old guy and never claimed to be a great photographer. Though my pictures certainly compete well with the recently quoted shots of "average hockey moms". Be that as it may, I am looking forward to be able to get reliable focusing again in a digital camera and be able to use my superior old Leitz lenses at sensitivities that are well above film speeds of days gone by. And, while this may generate howls of upset; I am not sure those Danish pictures are THAT bad. They are certainly better than many things published in LFI. Wow, now that I got this off my chest I can but hope that you will be gentle in your knowing responses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted October 4, 2006 Share #59 Posted October 4, 2006 Jeeze, all you old ladies clutching your purse to your chest need to calm down a bit. The first time I went to an in-store demo of a leaf Aptus 75, the people behind the counter convinced me that I wouldn't hire them to shoot e-bay pics let alone commercal work. Not one of them could hold the 645 steady, the three blind mice must of done the lighting set up, and they all must have been trained in file processing at the Helen Keller Institute. It took me a year to shake that experience and get the superb Aptus 75 back into my studio. These jpegs posted here are grossly oversharpened just for openers. That'd ruin a shot from a 39 meg Hasselblad H2D. It's like giving an Ansel Adams neg to an idiot, and then musing about how awful the print looks. The most important thing will be what your pics will look like to you. I know of NO dealer that doesn't have a return policy. You will know if the camera works for you about 10 minutes after the battery is charged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted October 5, 2006 Share #60 Posted October 5, 2006 "I haven't looked at the pictures in detail and have no idea what camera made them but I would again urge people to place little stock in "leaked" pictures (and these current pictures may not even be from an M8). I understand the frustration involved but in the days before computers we knew how to be patient and it's not a bad idea to re-learn that skill. For those who are concerned that they should get off waiting lists for the M8 (because of concerns about file quality) I would recommend against that. Cancelling an M8 order right now might prove to be as regrettable as selling one's Leica M lenses has been for some people." Good advice, as always, Sean. I ordered my M8 nearly ten months ago and am looking forward to it - particularly (of course) as I have (only) Leica lenses. I'm ignoring the few photos out there that may or may not be from an M8 as they wouldn't reflect the type of shots I take anyway (mostly of static cars which I rarely post here as I sensed they're unwelcome here - there were a few snooty remarks). I'm curious about the need to 'code' my existing lenses, however I shall read the comments here about whether I need to do that or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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