B&W Posted October 4, 2006 Share #21 Posted October 4, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some samples from the Danish distributor http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/6.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/2.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/3.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/1.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/5.-M8-stor.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Hi B&W, Take a look here Dear Leica: WHEN will we see M8 images?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #22 Posted October 4, 2006 Some samples from the Danish distributor http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/6.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/2.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/3.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/1.-M8-stor.jpg http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/m8/5.-M8-stor.jpg I can't get any EXIF data out of these for some reason, but I can't be alone in considering cancelling my M8 order on the basis of some of the images that I'm seeing that purportedly come from the camera. These images have EVERY known failing: noisy, chromatic aberration, artifacting. I'm truly, truly disappointed so far. And until I see any different, I'm actually gonna be "busy" when my Leica dealer rings... This is very sad. I'm gonna have to edit: this is really EXTREMELY sad. HANG ON!! I just went to this site, and it actually says this on the indexing page: "På Photokina messen i Köln præsenterede Leica for første gang sine nye kameraer og hos Nordisk Foto Import var vi glade for at vi mellem de mange danske og svenske besøg også fik mulighed for at tage lidt billeder. Vi kan på denne måde give dig, som forbruger, et lille billede af hvor stor og flot Leica standen var, samt ikke mindst hvilken stor interesse der var for alle de nye produkter. Klik på et billede og se det i stor skærmstørrelse eller klik her for et diasshow" with my approximate knowledge of Danish, it simply says something like "we had the chance to take some pictures... of how big and showy the Leica stand was, and how big the interest for all the new products..." ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION whatsoever that these were taken with the M8, as far as i can see. But then, like i said - i can't seem to get to the EXIF in these pictures. Anyone else?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #23 Posted October 4, 2006 The "Danish" pictures look pretty nasty ... very much like the same crap from the notorious Nikon D2H (above ISO640). But hey, Leica has always been behind the curve for the past 40-50 years, the fact they did build a digital M is quite an achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted October 4, 2006 Share #24 Posted October 4, 2006 Does not look like it was a very competent photographer who took the pictures ............... the shake/ misfocus/ way of framing the pictures tells me to forget about these samples and relax:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted October 4, 2006 Share #25 Posted October 4, 2006 "IF" this was M8 (I cannot see any M8-EXIF!), please allow me some personal notes: 1) extreme high ISO-setting in combination with in-camera JPEG-mode 2) Leica says that the firmware is not finished yet (especially for JPEG-shooting) 3) denoizing and some other improvements happens later in the external software (Phase One) 4) A distributor who publishes SUCH "quality-proofs" is shooting in his own (and Leica´s) leg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #26 Posted October 4, 2006 But Han ... check the noise pattern, as a Leica M, it has to be a decent high ISO performer and live upto the expectations from addicted available light shooters. My pre-order won't be cancelled in any case as I want to try this darned thing out myself and make my own judgement. It can't be easier to dump it on eBay just in case I really don't like it ... I'm sure some folks are ready to pay a premium to get it in a heart beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 4, 2006 Share #27 Posted October 4, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Danish images are not great (though not as awful as I was expecting from the commentary here) but are most probably high ISO and in-camera JPEGs. It'll be a pity if the in-camera JPEG performance is poor (it's always handy to have the option of shooting a bunch of images that will not require post-processing) but it won't be the end of the world. The important thing is the quality of RAW converted images and the recent French DNG file seemed fine in this respect. To be honest, I'm not expecting miracles with the M8 - my guess is that, in performance terms, the M8 will be a good mid-range pro-class digital camera. If so, that'll be fine for me (the key for me is simply having the option of a decent digital option for my M system). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #28 Posted October 4, 2006 Well as usual, no-one actually reads the information on the page, nor in this thread for that matter: so let me try one more time - AS FAR AS I CAN SEE (from my rather shaky knowledge of Danish), THE SITE MAKES NO CLAIM THAT THESE ARE M8 PICTURES. Got the shouting there? ¡¡THERE IS NO MENTION THAT THESE ARE M8 IMAGES!! One more time? ¡¡¡¡PROBABLY NOT M8 IMAGES!!!! On the other hand, this sort of speculation, with random online images here and there, does tend to reinforce the case for Leica to actually release some sample pictures... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckthual Posted October 4, 2006 Share #29 Posted October 4, 2006 In my humble opinion, considering the page http://www.leica-camera.dk/M8/Photokina%20billeder%20med%20LEICA%20M8.htm , it is an article about the M8 release, but in no way it looks like it's claiming the pictures shown were taken with the M8... The pictures are ABOUT the M8, not BY the M8. Cedric (who got scared a bit when opening the jpegs ;o) ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckthual Posted October 4, 2006 Share #30 Posted October 4, 2006 Plasticman, It seems we were typing at the same time ! ;o) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #31 Posted October 4, 2006 Well, the size of the "Danish" jpegs is 3939x2626 pixels ... it IS from a 10.3 MP camera. Ok, it could have been from a D80, a D200, a K10D (is it out there yet? ), a alpha 100 ... but the native JPEG size for all above mentioned DSLRs is 3872 x 2592 (same Sony CCD sensor), so which camera produces JPEGs at 3939x2626 pixel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #32 Posted October 4, 2006 ;-) Well - sorry for all the SHOUTING - but this is starting to get annoying. Plenty of us have a frankly ENORMOUS amount of money that we intend to spend on this camera. I can only assume that my Leica dealer fully expects me to cough-up the full amount when the camera arrives. In the meantime, any random image that's out there on the net that happens to mention the M8 leads to this sort of frenzied speculation - whether the images are taken with the camera or not (who knows?) Time for some real images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 4, 2006 Share #33 Posted October 4, 2006 ¡¡¡¡PROBABLY NOT M8 IMAGES!!!!. The Danish JPEGs appear to be 3936 x 2624 on my computer which, as Simon points out, is very similar to the published M8 spec for JPEGs (native resolution of 3936 x 2630). Are there are any other digital cameras which approximate to this resolution? (I appreciate that it's possible to resize and/or crop images to different pixel sizes but why would anybody bother if these are just shots of people 'using the M8' rather than shots 'taken using an M8'?) The Danish site also has images associated with the other new Leica products. The D-Lux 3 images correspond to the published specs of this camera in 2:3 mode (3566 x 2378) and the Digilux 3 image also correspond to the pixel specs of that camera (3136 x 2352). My impression is that the Danish pics under discussion are either images taken with the M8 or are purporting to have been taken with the M8 and are not simply shots of people using the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #34 Posted October 4, 2006 Time for some real images. Exactly ... all we're expecting is Leica being straight forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 4, 2006 Share #35 Posted October 4, 2006 Well, the size of the "Danish" jpegs is 3939x2626 pixels ... it IS from a 10.3 MP camera. sdai Very good sluething. I'm pretty sure your right. Although the EXIF info has been stripped off (easy to do by mistake) these files have the hallmark of the previous HALL #1 & #2 JPGs. The noise profiles in Neat Image will provide the decisive fingerprints as to the origin. That being said, these are probably M8 files. And, for the conditions, they are good files. Very good files. From a quick glance, they look like the ISO 1250 JPEGs from last week. If so, the M8 is going to be a hell of a low light camera. What is most incouraging is how well Neat Image easily cleans up the image at the default setting. Batch processing should be a breeze. If I were to quess, the in-camera noise reduction filter is off. That's a good thing when applying a more sophistacated algorithm later. I could be wrong, but if so, I want the camera that took the pictures! Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #36 Posted October 4, 2006 sdai I want the camera that took the pictures! Rex It's not really the noise that I find the most disturbing (although I can't say I'm over-enthused about that either), but the chromatic aberration and artifacting just looks horrible. I'm beginning to think that Leica enthusiasts (myself included) are actually willing ourselves blind to the glaring faults that are palpably obvious in images like this... [random details below] Let's face it, these images are horrible. If they did actually come from the camera, beta firmware or not, I'm seriously going to reconsider my buying decision... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6170-dear-leica-when-will-we-see-m8-images/?do=findComment&comment=64211'>More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 4, 2006 Share #37 Posted October 4, 2006 Here we go again... First off, Leica M8 RAW files converted in C1 measure 3904 x 2620 pixels, the RAW files themselves measure 3920 x 2638 (according to Breezebrowser) and the largest in-camera JPEGs measure 3936 x 2624. So, final sizes can vary according several factors and there's not much one can make of the pixel dimensions in the pictures discussed. I haven't looked at the pictures in detail and have no idea what camera made them but I would again urge people to place little stock in "leaked" pictures (and these current pictures may not even be from an M8). I understand the frustration involved but in the days before computers we knew how to be patient and it's not a bad idea to re-learn that skill <G>. For those who are concerned that they should get off waiting lists for the M8 (because of concerns about file quality) I would recommend against that. Cancelling an M8 order right now might prove to be as regrettable as selling one's Leica M lenses has been for some people. Hang in there. Legit picture examples from cameras with production firmware will be out there shortly after reviewers such as myself get the cameras. That should be some time after Oct. 15. Until then, it can be useful to look at pictures from the DMR and imagine what advances could be made with the passage of time since the DMR was introduced. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 4, 2006 Share #38 Posted October 4, 2006 Okay do you honestly think the M8 camera went that far from the counter under the very watchful eye of leica employee's and was able to slip in his SD card and than slip it out without anyone noticing, when leica employees are under strict restraints they actually let some bozo get away with this. Rememebr the DMR and the crap photos that were leaked or supposed DMR files. The DMR turned out completely different than that. The one shot of the girl had the EXIF data and without that i ain't believing anything ( bad English and All) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 4, 2006 Share #39 Posted October 4, 2006 I believe these images weren't stolen behind the counter, Guy ... they were shot by a Leica distributor and placed on the official site of a Leica distributor and chances are they could have the camera for many days if not many months. And the quality of the DMR is no guarantee for the quality the M8 ... in fact, I'd rather have Imacon developing the M8's image process engine instead of choosing Jenoptik/Sinar - their track record just aren't as good - simple. Whatever happens, it by no means is the end of day for most of us ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 4, 2006 Share #40 Posted October 4, 2006 As i stated (pretty unequivocally) above - nowhere on the site does the Leica distributor claim that these images were indeed taken with the M8 (much to my relief). However, I was a bit shaken that someone seemed to have hard evidence that they indeed WERE taken with the camera. However... MUCH more disturbing to my faith in the camera, is the fact that it sometimes seems that no matter how ENORMOUSLY CR-A-P the posted image is (and no offense is meant here), there seems to be a large number of Leicaphiles who'll jump in and say that the image we're looking at is actually superb... Of course, if the image then turns out to have been taken with a telephone, everyone sagely agrees that the picture was actually cr*p al along and nothing like a Leica image at all... My point is, i REALLY want to see some official images soon. It's hard to swallow the 'wait-and-see' thing when $5000 hangs in the balance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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