Phenomenal new software for B&W processing

[wstotler]

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To kick in so it doesn't get missed among plug ins and solutions--the TrueGrain application also does an incredible job. They did archival scanning of film stock to develop their film packs, which are applied . . . somehow . . . to really make the photo have "real" grain while handling the film stock's color reproduction capabilities, too. (I notice this most in how it does its conversions and gives unique contrast/luminance to the images, like film did.)

 

Developer site:

TrueGrain Overview

 

My Flickr Examples (look at them large):

TrueGrain - a set on Flickr

 

General search on Flickr for examples:

Flickr: Search

 

The package isn't cheap but I've been very impressed with the results. I can't tell the difference between the grain on my older Tri-X Pan work and TrueGrain's grain, even looking closely. Maybe somebody here will be able to tell the difference, but I couldn't.

 

Thanks,

Will

[jevidon]

The grain structure with the True Grain examples is impressive. But it is the apparent latitude and texture of the NIK Efex program that blew me away. As good True Grain is, I don't see and improvement over the DXO Film Pack that I have now for a lot less money. Still, neither seems to be as good as the NIK program.

 

I have included, I hope, two copies of the same shot; one original color and the second a NIK Siver Efex b&w. Both were shot with a Nikon D70s with a polarizing filter and some very mild post processing in CS3, but a slightly exaggerated sharpness for effect. Please excuse the size difference since this was my first try at attachments for this site.

 

Jim Evidon

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[jevidon]

The grain structure with the True Grain examples is impressive. But it is the apparent latitude and texture of the NIK Efex program that blew me away. As good True Grain is, I don't see and improvement over the DXO Film Pack that I have now for a lot less money. Still, neither seems to be as good as the NIK program.

 

I have included two copies of the same shot; one original color and the second a NIK Siver Efex b&w. Both were shot with a Nikon D70s with a polarizing filter and some very mild post processing in CS3, but a slightly exaggerated sharpness for effect. Please excuse the size difference since this was my first try at attachments for this site.

 

Jim Evidon

[wstotler]

The grain structure with the True Grain examples is impressive. But it is the apparent latitude and texture of the NIK Efex program that blew me away. As good True Grain is, I don't see and improvement over the DXO Film Pack that I have now for a lot less money. Still, neither seems to be as good as the NIK program.

 

Jim--you've gotten my interest with these shots. When I download the latest NIK and the DXO Film Pack applications/plug-ins I'll do side-by-sides with TrueGrain and post them. While I'd be interested to see someone like Sean Reid do a detailed comparison (and add in comments about experience), this should suffice.

 

Thanks,

Will

[jevidon]

You are welcome. I'd like to see what your impression is after you compare them. The DXO package is half the cost and has fewer controls, but the NIK plug in is much more sophisticated.

Jim

[wstotler]

You are welcome. I'd like to see what your impression is after you compare them. The DXO package is half the cost and has fewer controls, but the NIK plug in is much more sophisticated.

Jim

 

I'm going to post examples and crops, etc., so people can see them. This should get me to a good frame of mind about these three products, anyway. I'm hoping I discover that one is markedly better for some kind of work than the others. It may end up being a law of diminishing returns thing, like the CaptureOne/Lightroom/Aperture shootout--the fine differences are really fine. Anyway, the apples-to-apples comparisons should help. That said, it's going to be a little rough to scientifically baseline/benchmark these tools (so the comparisons are as solid as possible and not just a matter of taste), but I'm going to give it a go.

[wstotler]

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Here are some examples.

 

I decided to show the whole photo (shrunk down) so you can see the differences in tonality, at a glance.

 

Then, I started selectively "zooming in" (each set of images was made from a master file--I did not recursively resize images!) to show how the detail looks with each product.

 

Finally, I showed some 100% crops of areas--one showing "in focus" and "out of focus" in the same shot and also how general bokeh from out of focus areas are handled.

 

It's a taste thing. The TrueGrain thing is the *best* of the three in destroying the image *just like film did*. (On the Tri-X Pan, anyway.) Application of noise (DXO and Nik) just isn't the same as applying "real" grain.

 

So, if that's to your taste, it's to taste.

 

On a side note, AWESOME amount of useful filters in the Nik package. . . . It's on my short list now for things besides B&W conversion.

 

Thanks,

Will

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[Guest stnami]

The Nik package is focused on bnw conversion than on grain.................. worked nicely on scanned slide film.. no deed for grain there

[woodyspedden]

Yeah, Nik is doing something interesting with midtone tonlities, and I like the overall controls...

 

I posted an AlienSkin vs Nik conversion here:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/58533-back-alley-conversation.html#post606025

 

I agree with Jamie on the strengths of the Nik software. But $199 for a Black and white conversion is pretty steep. I believe few would argue this point!!!

 

Woody

[jevidon]

Nice photos for comparison. When it comes to grain, your True Grain wins the prize. But, when it comes to scale or latitude, both DXO and True grain are lower in apparent contrast with the DXO sample showing less detail, whereas the NIK software definitely shows a greater range of tonality. Look at the child's forehead and hair detail, for instance. I think the best results were from True Grain if you are after grain simulation, and NIK Efex Pro for a more film like "range of light" as Adams liked to say. This is one person's opinion, anyway.

For me the question is whether or not I like the NIK software enough to pop for the cost. It is steep. I wonder what sort of result we'd get by doing the B&W conversion with the DXO using the no grain setting and then processing that result with True Grain. Hmmm!

Jim Evidon

[frasier]

Here are some examples.

 

I decided to show the whole photo (shrunk down) so you can see the differences in tonality, at a glance.

 

Then, I started selectively "zooming in" (each set of images was made from a master file--I did not recursively resize images!) to show how the detail looks with each product.

 

Finally, I showed some 100% crops of areas--one showing "in focus" and "out of focus" in the same shot and also how general bokeh from out of focus areas are handled.

 

It's a taste thing. The TrueGrain thing is the *best* of the three in destroying the image *just like film did*. (On the Tri-X Pan, anyway.) Application of noise (DXO and Nik) just isn't the same as applying "real" grain.

 

So, if that's to your taste, it's to taste.

 

On a side note, AWESOME amount of useful filters in the Nik package. . . . It's on my short list now for things besides B&W conversion.

 

Thanks,

Will

Am I wrong or got things mixed up a bit!? The discussion was about NIK´s new SilverEffex software. What you are showing in your test Will, is NIK´s color efex Pro 3.0 software, which is quite a different filter set. So it would be interesting to see a this test with the actual package that we are talking about.

Best Regards, Jochen

[wstotler]

Am I wrong or got things mixed up a bit!? . . . So it would be interesting to see a this test with the actual package that we are talking about.

Best Regards, Jochen

 

Forest for the trees, as they say. I've grabbed the Silver Efex tool and am building samples now. Thanks! --Will

[wstotler]

OK. Here's a set with the NIK Silver Efex Pro Tool. Sorry for the earlier confusion. Consider the other set I posted a bonus run.

 

Thanks!

Will

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[Shootist]

Just how much is the Alien Skin converter? I think it is the same price, $200.00.

I think I like the NIK software better. Although it's been a few months since I used the Demo of A S.

[ccc yyy]

yes, it's great to have all the existing s/w options, to dial-in the desired

mono look w/o having to mess around with chemistry and/or scanning.

 

though, should one feel compelled to mess around with chemistry and/

or scanning, one still has the very same s/w options to fine-tune for the

desired mono look.

 

 

and Will, thanks for the side-by-side visual.

[jevidon]

Great comparison shots, Will. DXO gives lower contrast and NIK and True Grain are similar and have good latitude. If you are intyo that coarse grain look of TX, then T.G. is the ticket. Frankly, I'm not into coarse grain except in special circumstances so I still go with the NIK Silver Efex. The price still chokes me up, however.

Jim Evidon

[scho]

Great comparison shots, Will. DXO gives lower contrast and NIK and True Grain are similar and have good latitude. If you are intyo that coarse grain look of TX, then T.G. is the ticket. Frankly, I'm not into coarse grain except in special circumstances so I still go with the NIK Silver Efex. The price still chokes me up, however.

Jim Evidon

 

If you do a lot of printing and want to stock up on paper then this intro offer for NIK SilverEfex from booksmartstudio might be of interest:

https://www.booksmartstudio.com/store/

[ibogost]

I agree with Jamie on the strengths of the Nik software. But $199 for a Black and white conversion is pretty steep. I believe few would argue this point!!!

 

True Grain costs even more though. And not to knock the more extensive grain controls of the former, Silver Efex offers more than just grain simulation; it also has some neat selective exposure tools.

[Artichoke]

True Grain costs even more though. And not to knock the more extensive grain controls of the former, Silver Efex offers more than just grain simulation; it also has some neat selective exposure tools.

Nik has produced a outstanding filter for PS

while I have not worked with True Grain, the Nik Silver Efex Pro allows for great control of grain & its grain engine produces what looks very film like emulations

the selection dodge & burn tools in the Nik filter are extraordinarily good

I also love the toning available in Nik, particularly Selenium

it is not cheap, but Nik plugins for PS have been upgradeable in the past & I suspect this will be the case here as well

from my short experience with it, I think this will be my favored BW conversion tool

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Chrizzlie]

From what I see here, TrueGrain is closest to the TriX scans I get from my Nikon Coolscan. The NIK and DXO stuff retains the overly smooth "instant soup taste" of digital.

 

But guys, let's get real just a little bit:

 

After years of complaining about digital vs. film and endless debate which is better, after pontificating the merits of digital to everyone only remotely interested, you now consider to fork out hundreds of dollars to bring film-look back to your digital instant-smoothies?

 

This is like buying a can of campbell's soup and hoping to convert it into a gourmet dish by pouring some ready-made spice mixture...

 

If you want gourmet, go to the market, work yourself through the cooking and find a revelation on your tongue... and satisfaction in your heart.

If you want film, buy film, work yourself through the darkroom and find a revelation in your eye... and satisfaction in your soul.

 

That's the way I see it,

Christian