Jamie Roberts Posted July 14, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I quickly took this shot through a window of someone figuring something out in an alley (or texting on a new cell) and he was there and gone. I knew I wanted this to be BW, and Nik just released new software called "Silver Efex Pro" so I downloaded it and tried it against the AlienSkin Exposure 2 software. Both are TriX; Nik has a "yellow filter" applied to it. Nik is still doing things to the grain levels and midtones that AlienSkin isn't though; if I was forced to say I think Nik's grain engine is more sophisticated than the AlienSkin one, though there seems to be a lot more of it... M8 90 'cron pre-ASPH @ f2 Nik TriX: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! AlienSkin TriX 100% crops: Nik TriX: AlienSkin TriX: Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! AlienSkin TriX 100% crops: Nik TriX: AlienSkin TriX: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/57808-back-alley-conversation/?do=findComment&comment=604438'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Hi Jamie Roberts, Take a look here back alley conversation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
peterv Posted July 14, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 14, 2008 Hi Jamie, thanks for posting. Interesting. Personally, I find the Nik a bit too harsh, and I don't remember Tri X being that grainy. (others may disagree, of course) Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted July 14, 2008 Peter--my thoughts exactly, though I prefer the midtone to highlight transition in the Nik, I thinkI prefer the actual conversion from AlienSkin. The Nik filter adds a *lot* of grain... but the reason I think it's more sophisticated is that it's obviously adding different amounts in different tonal areas.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzav Posted July 15, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 15, 2008 Peter--my thoughts exactly, though I prefer the midtone to highlight transition in the Nik, I thinkI prefer the actual conversion from AlienSkin. The Nik filter adds a *lot* of grain... but the reason I think it's more sophisticated is that it's obviously adding different amounts in different tonal areas.... Hi Jamie, That is sort of the point with Silver Efex Pro. Their "Grain Engine" mimics the way silver grains respond to light with varying sized grains getting exposed based on light intensity. I have processed enough B&W film to know that the grain in shadows is quite different from the grain in middle tones and highlights, something most B&W emulators fail to recognize. I find it looks much closer to real B&W film than the blanket layer of artificial grain laid down by most B&W emulation software. Most B&W emulator remind me of the artificial grain screens that used to be sold for sandwiching with fine-grain film to get that TRI-X look. They never looked right... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted July 16, 2008 Yes, I agree with you and understand that's the point of Nik's plugin: I was also raised developing BW film But I still think, from what I've seen so far--which is admittedly not that much--that Nik's grain "amounts" seem off, as does their tonality from straight digital colour (it's as if all the film stocks have been pushed processed or developed in a "non-standard" fashion). I haven't found a place to adjust it yet either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Isayo Posted July 17, 2008 Share #6 Posted July 17, 2008 I've been using the Alien Skin for a while now and love it. Although the quality is exceptional and very film like, the speed (being a filter, not action) has led me to use Jeff Ascough's B&W action which seems to be just as good but much faster. Also I downloaded the new Nik and was not too impressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted July 18, 2008 Share #7 Posted July 18, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nik's actually better than it first appears, I used it in conjunction with Alien Skin's grain only works quite well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted July 20, 2008 Imants, thanks for the tip! I'll try the two in combination. I'd still like to see an overall grain control in the Nik software... I can't find it, but it doesn't mean it isn't there @ Josef, Jeff's actions are really great, especially in overall tonal response for print. I still use the AlienSkin stuff a lot though, because I can mess with it a lot, and I like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzav Posted July 21, 2008 Share #9 Posted July 21, 2008 Imants, thanks for the tip! I'll try the two in combination. I'd still like to see an overall grain control in the Nik software... I can't find it, but it doesn't mean it isn't there @ Josef, Jeff's actions are really great, especially in overall tonal response for print. I still use the AlienSkin stuff a lot though, because I can mess with it a lot, and I like that. Hi Jamie, You can adjust the grain effect quite easily in Silver Efex. The righthand column of effects has a number of triangle-like pointers next to the names of the tools they expand or collapse. You will see the third one down labelled "Film Types," click the triangle if it is not open, then select your film type, and below that, is a label "Grain" with another small triangle which opens some sliders. The ones you may be interested in are "Grain per pixel," (lower number gives coarser grain) and a "soft - hard" slider. if you become familiar with the U-Point auto masking system that is new in NiK filters, it can save you a lot of time when making selective adjustments. Below the Grain label you will find "Sensitivity" sliders for each of the primary colors (R,G,B,C,Y,M) and "Tone Curve," which allows you to drag numerous points on a curve just like in Ps. I hope this helps... Nick PS If you like "messing" with B&W conversion, Silver Efex should keep you busy for a long time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #10 Posted July 21, 2008 Nick--thanks loads for the tip. I seriously could not "see" the adjustments there in the interface. Getting older, I guess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted July 22, 2008 Share #11 Posted July 22, 2008 and love the way it renders BW grain can be adjust both for size and sharpness ...I agree that the defaults are too strong, but I also find myself tweaking BW much more than I ever tweak color I love the dodge & burn Control Points which are outstanding BTW, I appreciate your showing this comparison which I think was well done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzav Posted July 22, 2008 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2008 Nick--thanks loads for the tip. I seriously could not "see" the adjustments there in the interface. Getting older, I guess Jamie You're quite welcome, and it happens to the best of us... I am still amazed by what Silver Efex can do, and each discovery only shows there is little it can't do. I have been extremely busy with other projects and preparing for PhotoPlus Expo, so Silver Efex has been on the back burner, but I intend to delegate some more time to it. When you (and someone else) mentioned there was no control for grain attributes, I knew that grain control managed to hide from you. I can't imagine anything one would want to do with grain (or any other aspect of B&W conversion) that this plug-in can't accomplish. You always have the option of using the "Selective Tool" that allows you to use brush tools to apply or remove the plug-in's effect. I know you can do it in Ps using adjustment layers, but this is more convenient. Actually, you can almost do anything plug-ins like Silver Efex can do in Ps, but it will take much longer, involve many more steps, and will certainly be harder and unintuitive. I see these tools as time-savers that improve results and workflow. When you get a chance, play around with the U-point feaure. It is an automatic masking system using sliders and control points that NiK now uses in Color Efex, Dfine, Viveza, and Silver Efex. They also license it to Nikon for their NX conversion software now. Pretty interesting stuff... Note - Contrary to how it may sound, I do not work for NiK. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted July 23, 2008 Very interesting stuff, and now that I've found how the interface works I like the Nik tools more and more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted July 23, 2008 Share #14 Posted July 23, 2008 Personally, I find the Nik a bit too harsh, and I don't remember Tri X being that grainy. (others may disagree, of course) Cheers, Peter Perhaps the reason you might not remember Tri-X being that grainy is that you likely didn't look at 200% blowups of sections of your prints. Looks pretty realistic to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzav Posted July 23, 2008 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2008 Perhaps the reason you might not remember Tri-X being that grainy is that you likely didn't look at 200% blowups of sections of your prints. Looks pretty realistic to me. fotografr, Your point is very valid; the image viewed at 100% (actual pixels) on a 24" display is equivalent to over 30x magnification! That's a far cry from the 5 & 6x magnifiers we used on our light tables to evaluate 35mm slides and negatives... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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